3076R Install
- Thread starter chriscecc914
- Start date
- Status
pHeeL tHiZ ViBe
Member
- :
- Mazdaspeed6
Can you please elaborate further on this. Although what you are saying makes sense, it doesn't hold true in application (at least as I understand it). What Max said is correct, 7psi on a GT30 will flow more air than 7psi on T25.
Forced induction does exactly what you said, "increase the pressure" within the cylinders. Although you cannot change the volume of the cylinders, you can change amount of air being forced into that cylinder. Back to the example (and without looking up the actual flow charts of the 2 turbos) lets say a t25 flows 225 CFM @ 7psi, and the gt30 flows 300CFM @ 7psi. The larger turbo is able to "force" (or pressurize) more air into the cylinder, at the same psi (but possible at times - RPM - due to turbine size/wheel )
Maybe I am missing something somewhere. I am not trying to argue, just want to expand my knowledge, and correct my way of thinking if I am incorrect. If you have Corky Bell's book, Maximum Boost maybe you could point me something I need to re-read
thank you brian for explaining that lol, i had given up. i mean WOW common sense people.
the turbo is capable of flowing more air efficiently, that has nothing to do with the amount of boost created by the turbo. it only effects that turbos efficient boost range.
pHeeL tHiZ ViBe
Member
- :
- Mazdaspeed6
well...yes, good enough. talk about layman's terms LOL.
its just ridiculous to believe that just because a turbo can efficiently flow 3 times the air as a smaller turbo, that it will have three times the boost no matter what psi you have the wastegates adjusted to. if you have the car regulated at 18psi...you will only get 18psi. bottom line, end of story.
now what a bigger turbo does allow you to do, is turn up the boost to levels that would exceed the smaller turbos flow capabilities. thats all
no hard feelings anyone, just want everyone to be able to learn the truth. ya know the actual/real-life/down-to-earth/not-made-up concepts of turbo modding.
its just ridiculous to believe that just because a turbo can efficiently flow 3 times the air as a smaller turbo, that it will have three times the boost no matter what psi you have the wastegates adjusted to. if you have the car regulated at 18psi...you will only get 18psi. bottom line, end of story.
now what a bigger turbo does allow you to do, is turn up the boost to levels that would exceed the smaller turbos flow capabilities. thats all
no hard feelings anyone, just want everyone to be able to learn the truth. ya know the actual/real-life/down-to-earth/not-made-up concepts of turbo modding.
its just whenever someone mentions this they never explain it correctly like u guys finally have.
a gt25 at 5 psi and a gt28rs at 5 psi are not going to put out the same hp. not cause psi is more, cause we know psi is psi, but its more efficient and its power range is totally different which has another effect (loss of low end for top end).
so the people that dont understand are partially correct, at 5 psi both turbos are going to affect the engine differently. 5 psi is 5 psi but the larger turbo is going to do it more efficiently which is more power.
and those of u that know 5 psi is 5 psi werent explaining (in teh beginning) that its more hp cause its more efficient, and this vicious circle happens.
hopefully they get it now.
a gt25 at 5 psi and a gt28rs at 5 psi are not going to put out the same hp. not cause psi is more, cause we know psi is psi, but its more efficient and its power range is totally different which has another effect (loss of low end for top end).
so the people that dont understand are partially correct, at 5 psi both turbos are going to affect the engine differently. 5 psi is 5 psi but the larger turbo is going to do it more efficiently which is more power.
and those of u that know 5 psi is 5 psi werent explaining (in teh beginning) that its more hp cause its more efficient, and this vicious circle happens.
hopefully they get it now.
- :
- Completely Stock P5
You are clueless. Rich AFR's can still blow an engine if you run too much timing. I've SEEN IT!
dadasracecar
Member
I like the low fluid levels/incorrectly adjusted (not adjusted) WG theory. Not enough oil and coolant = friction and HEAT. 23psi wastegate = too much boost. High engine temps lead to detonation. This coupled with too much boost and the fuel cut killer disallowing fuel cut seems to me to be the perfect rod destroying storm...
chriscecc914
Member
- :
- 06 MS6
you just said it yourself... then its bad timing thats killing the motor not the rich afr
and you dont even have an ms6 so why are you being a troll?
- :
- MP5T / 944
So you are going to hope that the last thing that you were calling me wrong on will simply go away?
You are the first person who has called me "Wrong" in over 8 Months... Perhaps that's for a reason Maxx...
- :
- Completely Stock P5
It's not only bad timing, it was agressive timing (for that bosot level) WAY too much boost, and both of those would have contributed to the temperatures inside the engine. The advanced timing helps to cool it a little, but that much boost pressure was simply too much.
How am I being a troll?
- :
- Completely Stock P5
I still think you're wrong even after reading all the explanations. It doesn't make sense to me. Sure the engine can only deal with so much air (as much as it and it's intake system can contain) but even still a larger turbo can deliver more air per pound of boost. I showed that a few posts back.
I think what you're thinking is that no matter how much air the hairdryer can blow, the engine can only "process" or "use" so much of it, and therefore 18psi is 18psi. I just don't see that.
Agree to disagree?
- :
- MP5T / 944
I still think you're wrong even after reading all the explanations. It doesn't make sense to me. Sure the engine can only deal with so much air (as much as it and it's intake system can contain) but even still a larger turbo can deliver more air per pound of boost. I showed that a few posts back.
I think what you're thinking is that no matter how much air the hairdryer can blow, the engine can only "process" or "use" so much of it, and therefore 18psi is 18psi. I just don't see that.
Agree to disagree?
Yes The Turbo WILL DELIVER the extra air, But not when it's attached to an engine.
Those Pressure maps are used to match a Turbo to an Engine.
The Volume that a turbo will use is based off the Engine it's going on, NOT The other way around.
The Engines A/R is calculated based on the RPM and the Displacement. That A/R has a desired Pressure worked into the calculation. Each is different and must be evaluated independently of each other.
Reference the Agree or Disagree,
See Bold Text and Read a thread I made in 2003 called how to read a compressor map, it's fine and dandy putting them in your posts, but If you don't know what the hell you are looking at then don't bother....
forrestang
Member
So nobody is going to answer my question:
How did not having a tune kill this Speed6?
How did not having a tune kill this Speed6?
- :
- MP5T / 944
If you read back most of the likely causes are there.
There is no way to know because there was no Data-Logger...
I believe that it was a combination of bad luck and an oversight in the install. It could have easily been a bum motor, but I do think that somehow the car went really lean, detonated and blew a rod.
There are hundreds of things that could cause this. There was a thread that I was reading where a Member turbo'ed his Speed6 and then didn't add any coolant to the rad because there was some in the overflow... WTF. If you see a Gallon come out on the floor, it's a safe bet there is a gallon of air somewhere... Great way to totally **** the heads...
I'm off track.. Sorry...
forrestang
Member
This is my point Brian......the car as it sits, is relatively rich, and timing is relatively tame. Not to mention the knock monitoring and reacting on this car is actually quite good. The only two things one really is going to do is add/remove fuel and/or timing.
When one tunes this car, more than likely, he is going to remove fuel from the A/F.....more than likely anyways. Doing this is going to increase power as the stock tune adds tons of fuel. While removing fuel, you are going to increase the likely hood of detonation, or throwing a rod due to added power on these bad rods.
So.....the reason I kept asking "what are you phsyically doing to the tune" to reduce the likely hood of throwing a rod......I wanted someone to tell me how they were going to do that by removing fuel? The answer is that you probably won't.....but nobody would admit to it. It was obvious that people were just regurgitating things they've heard somewhere else with no real experience. That's my point if I explained it well enough?
Now.......I think it was either bad luck, bad motor, or something not plumbed right(possibly leading to an overboost).....None of this has ANYTHING to do with not having a tune.
SuperStretch18
Member
- :
- '07 CX-7 Sport, Black on Black; '04 Mazda3s
If you're A/F ratio was running super lean (which an untuned monster of a turbo, with no fuel upgrades could do), detonation could have been bad enough to blow your rod. Your injectors/fuel pump can only flow so much gas, but the air is unlimited. Sucks, but is a possibility...
chriscecc914
Member
- :
- 06 MS6
you are giving false info about forced induction, afr's, and timing. You dont know much about MS6's, and you dont even have an MS6...
you say rich afr's kill motors. then you say it was due to aggressive timing and boost.
thats like me saying 89 octane gas kills motors. and then later saying "ive seen it happen! 89 octane gas in combination with 150 shot of nitrous and and aggressive timing kills motors."
stop beating around the bush
funktownp5
Member
- :
- 02 Mazda P5 Turbo
I think he overboosted since it was the first time he got on it. I dont think it
was because of not having a tune but not having COMMON TURBO SENSE!!
Last edited:
forrestang
Member
^^^^^This is a reasonable answer. Which is highly possible, and it's easy to have a line pinched, or incorrectly routed and overboost on a new setup for sure.
forrestang
Member
Yes, this is possible, but we aren't talking about a monstor turbo in the 3076, and it does take a while before you run out of fuel on this car.
I've pretty muched logged and posted the point where this car starts to have fueling problems.
- Status
