3076R Install

[jbspeed6]

overboost, different spool up time, too much load, not enough fuel, bad timing...

He was "supposively" keeping it at stock boost

different spool up time would not make you throw a rod

Load could be a factor, but only if he was in 6th gear going up a hill and hitting higher boost than stock

There is plenty of feul, or atleast for a Speed6 with stock everything, just a different turbo/downpipe/intake. This has been proven many times.

Stock tune's timing is also fine for a turbo upgrade.

This had to be a bad part from the factory, or atleast was already stressed by previous use. Rods have snapped on stock turbos with these cars, and he was also not on full throttle. It is starting to seem like a hit or miss with the MS6, either you have a strong car from the factory or you may have a problem with modding. I just hit 12000 miles on the new turbo, no tune, stock intercooler, at 11.2:1 AFR.

BTW, there is a member selling a stock short block on the 6 c l u b Engine buy sell forum.

 

[Maxx Mazda]

He was "supposively" keeping it at stock boost

different spool up time would not make you throw a rod

Sounds like you need to do some research my friend. That turbo is almost 3 times as big. So at the stock 18psi, it's flowing MUCH more air than the stock turbo. Think of it as the stock turbo running 36psi, to stay conservative. To equal the airflow of the stock turbo with the new GT30, he'd have to keep the boost probably around the 10-12psi mark.

So, he probably had some knock, detonated and broke a rod. To think that you can't break a rod from a bad tune is just moronic...

 

[forrestang]

overboost, different spool up time, too much load, not enough fuel, bad timing...

Overboost: This is a possibility, but I figured we were assuming he hooked his vacuum up correctly. If he didn't, he could have gotten an overboost condition with an incorrectly plumbed K04. So that has nothing to do with the turbo.

Too much load: You can have the same problem with a K04 if you load it in a high gear.

Not enough fuel: Assuming everything is functioning correctly on this car, it takes a while before you run out of fuel. This is coming from someone with plenty of logs of A/F. It doesn't happen at 4000rpm on this car, not even close, especially with the stock fuel trims in place.

The car doesn't lean itself out with the turbo, the MAF still reads the incoming air and adapts the appropriate fuel.

Bad timing: Possibly, but he was running the stock timing.

So none of these conditions have anything to do with the turbo.

 

[forrestang]

Sounds like you need to do some research my friend. That turbo is almost 3 times as big. So at the stock 18psi, it's flowing MUCH more air than the stock turbo. Think of it as the stock turbo running 36psi, to stay conservative. To equal the airflow of the stock turbo with the new GT30, he'd have to keep the boost probably around the 10-12psi mark.

So, he probably had some knock, detonated and broke a rod. To think that you can't break a rod from a bad tune is just moronic...

Your calculations are waaaaaaaaaay off here. 18psi from a 3076R does not equal 36psi from the K04. Not even close.

The 3076R barely spools on this car at 4K. Hell, the 71R is just starting to wake up.

I agree with you about the knock part, but it's unlikely at 4K as he was running the stock tune. I'm more likely to suffer detonation this way with my modified fueling map than he is with his stock tune.

 

[Kooldino]

Yes, but how does this make you throw a rod? I'm just saying this guy throwing a rod has absolutely nothing to do with him not having a tune.

What makes you say this? A bad tune will QUICKLY kill a motor.

 

[forrestang]

What makes you say this? A bad tune will QUICKLY kill a motor.

I never said it wouldn't. But usually when a motor goes, there a bunch of tell-tales left behind that tell you the most likely cause of it's destruction.

When you pop a motor, the easiest way to keep it from happening again is taking it apart.

This guy didn't have a bad tune.

 

[TheMAN]

thank you yashart, jcell, maxx_mazda, and kooldino
I need not say anything else

 

[chriscecc914]

the postings on ATP's site say that the turbo should be used over 22psi or over 450 crank hp for max efficiency. There is proof from other members on this site who have had no problems whatso ever with this turbo. The stock tune has plenty of fuel for the car to run safely with my setup.

Stop making up sht that you have no proof of. You guys are telling me that the kit is not safe dont even own the kit so where are you getting your proof from. Ask MS6 freak this is exactly what he wrote to me before i bought the kit:

hey i see u installed the 3076r. I want to order mine soon. what 1/4 mile times are you running and is it fine to run the kit without a tune?

i didnt go to the 1\4 mile , but the kit is amazing and it is working great even without a tune

Whatever, the amount haters on this site is ridiculous. Keep hating. Ill be buying a build shortblock and making power and you'll still be slowwwWWWW

 

[forrestang]

Of course this isn't meant as a flame, but it appears the problem is that I don't think people understand what you are actually doing to the car when you 'tune' it? As if it's some magical procedure that is somehow going to change the physical characteristics of an engine?

Anyone that has ever tuned a car, more specifically the speed6, and actually observed what's going on when you're tuning it, knows there is little to nothing you can do to actually tune the car to remove the probability of throwing a rod.

 

[acidbug]

I personally plan on upgrading to the ATP kit in the near futer..but the truth is no one truly knows the limits of this eninge..it's all speculation since people who blow their engines normally have 1 of 2 things in common..

1. too much boost (whether its on the k04 or upgraded turbo)
2. insufficent tune

Truth of the matter is no one knows what this guy did to his car prior to the upgrade..no one knows how much boost he was pushing on the stock k04..and for how long.

-C

 

[Killer]

zoom zoom boom (lol2)

 

[Maxx Mazda]

Your calculations are waaaaaaaaaay off here. 18psi from a 3076R does not equal 36psi from the K04. Not even close.

The 3076R barely spools on this car at 4K. Hell, the 71R is just starting to wake up.

I agree with you about the knock part, but it's unlikely at 4K as he was running the stock tune. I'm more likely to suffer detonation this way with my modified fueling map than he is with his stock tune.

Just used hypothetical numbers man. The point I was making is that on the same bosot, that GT30 will flow WAY more air than the K04. Your thinking is wrong.

 

[buit9110]

i have the 3071 and havent tuned it yet, ms6 mike, kurfgator and me did it. the afr on my wideband show that it still runs rich at wot, like 11:1 and someties even lower, I'll post the video later with the how-to for the turbo upgrade.

 

[Afroman]

It was fun while it lasted. The stock parts on this car are really bad. Axles, fuel system, motor, tranny. Mazda really wasnt thinking of us car finatics when they built this car. It was made to remain stock. Well anyways when the new motor goes in, hopefully a fuel solution will be released so i can squeeze out every pony this 3076r has to offer.

I dont see how this is "Mazda's Fault" for not looking into the future and seeing what type of turbo upgrades will be available for this car. I mean you can really only plan so much.

Unless they start hiring Psychics.......

 

[Brian MP5T]

Is this the first MS6 for Boom?

 

[jbspeed6]

Just used hypothetical numbers man. The point I was making is that on the same bosot, that GT30 will flow WAY more air than the K04. Your thinking is wrong.

The only reason this would make a difference, or atleast a large enough difference to blow a motor, is if this "huge increase of air" leaned out the AFR too much. I will say again, IT HAS BEEN SHOWN that even a 3076 does not over-lean this engine, it simply does not flow that much more air over the stock turbo. It does lean it out a small amount from around 10:1 with the KO4 to anywhere from 10.5-11:1, but nothing substantial enough to show that this turbo is flowing THAT many more molecules of air. My car on the dyno, stock tune, saw 11.1:1 AFR, and that was still 1-2 psi higher than what I was running on my stock turbo.

Like Forrest said, you are grossly over-estimating the amount of air these turbos put out...

 

[jbspeed6]

Is this the first MS6 for Boom?

Definately not. I do, however, believe this is the second blown motor with the ATP turbo kit. The first was due to an overboost situation, resulting in 30 psi and 20:1 AFR. There have been others blowing their motors on stock turbo as well.

Ha, one interesting statistic. Of the 6 big turbo'ed MPS's that I know about, 2 have blown their motors. The success rate is 66%, lol.

 

[Brian MP5T]

Detonation will kill the rod at an alarming rate.

I believe it ran lean and blew.

The stock motor with a proper tune should last much linger than that..

 

[Brian MP5T]

Ha, one interesting statistic. Of the 6 big turbo'ed MPS's that I know about, (So Far) 2 have blown their motors. The success rate is 66%, lol.

IMO Eventually they will all pop, just like the die hards that said the MSP can run 12 Psi on stock internals...

Where are they now...... ??? (drunk)

 

[jbspeed6]

Detonation will kill the rod at an alarming rate.

I believe it ran lean and blew.

The stock motor with a proper tune should last much linger than that..

See, you really need to do your homework on the MS6 before posting stuff like this. I am not saying that it didn't run lean, but, for every single big turbo MS6, they are running leaner than 11.5:1 AFR at stock boost. This is a VERY conservative number, most MS6's take out fuel in order to make power at stock boost.