3076R Install

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jbspeed6 said:
See, you really need to do your homework on the MS6 before posting stuff like this. I am not saying that it didn't run lean, but, for every single big turbo MS6, they are running leaner than 11.5:1 AFR at stock boost. This is a VERY conservative number, most MS6's take out fuel in order to make power at stock boost.
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So lets say you are correct and I don't know what I'm talking about.

You say that the car was running on "Conservative Boost", Unless you are a Mazda Teck, you have no real baseline to decide that it is conservative.

Everyone thought that Ten PSI was conservative for the MSP in 2004 where actually, Stock boost was almost the total limit of the motor.

I'm not pretending to know the MS6 inside and out, Neither should you IMHO.

You installed a much larger turbo without compensating the tune for it and it failed the motor. I think it's a real shame, I wish it just worked for you but this is the reality of tuning. You are not the first and will not be the last. I stand by my original post that it was likely lean compounded by the mismatched Turbo/Tune.

The stock ECU pulls fuel to make power is what you are saying, that makes perfect sense, and it kinna works to my advantage here in this discussion. If Mazda leans out the car to make power, then what you basically did was lean it out a bit more for it. I think that you might have gotten a bad engine that was going to eventually fail, perhaps it was weak to begin with, but now your stuck with a rebuild, I can't wait to see the final product.
 
Brian MP5T said:
So lets say you are correct and I don't know what I'm talking about.

You say that the car was running on "Conservative Boost", Unless you are a Mazda Teck, you have no real baseline to decide that it is conservative.

Everyone thought that Ten PSI was conservative for the MSP in 2004 where actually, Stock boost was almost the total limit of the motor.

I'm not pretending to know the MS6 inside and out, Neither should you IMHO.

You installed a much larger turbo without compensating the tune for it and it failed the motor. I think it's a real shame, I wish it just worked for you but this is the reality of tuning. You are not the first and will not be the last. I stand by my original post that it was likely lean compounded by the mismatched Turbo/Tune.

The stock ECU pulls fuel to make power is what you are saying, that makes perfect sense, and it kinna works to my advantage here in this discussion. If Mazda leans out the car to make power, then what you basically did was lean it out a bit more for it. I think that you might have gotten a bad engine that was going to eventually fail, perhaps it was weak to begin with, but now your stuck with a rebuild, I can't wait to see the final product.
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1st of all, my car is running very strong, I am not the one who threw a rod. I have been on my big turbo for 12000+ miles.

2nd, I am not talking about the stock ECU pulling fuel, I am talking about using a tuner in order to tune this car to make the most power. Most if not all people running stock boost on the MS6 are pulling fuel with their respective tuning software, the stock ecu is not doing this. I am also talking about PROFFESIONALS doing the tuning here, not just hack owners who want more power and don't have a clue what they are doing. The ECU is adding as much fuel as possible to keep the AFR as low as it can. Completely stock MS6's have seen as low at 9:1 AFR on the dyno.

You are right about knowing the MS6. I did not mean to act like I knew everything about the car, I will be the first to admit that there is a lot about this car that people, myself included, do not know. And we are not going to know without screwing a few things up in the process; thankfully I have not messed my car up *yet*.
 
jbspeed6 said:
The only reason this would make a difference, or atleast a large enough difference to blow a motor, is if this "huge increase of air" leaned out the AFR too much. I will say again, IT HAS BEEN SHOWN that even a 3076 does not over-lean this engine, it simply does not flow that much more air over the stock turbo. It does lean it out a small amount from around 10:1 with the KO4 to anywhere from 10.5-11:1, but nothing substantial enough to show that this turbo is flowing THAT many more molecules of air. My car on the dyno, stock tune, saw 11.1:1 AFR, and that was still 1-2 psi higher than what I was running on my stock turbo.

Like Forrest said, you are grossly over-estimating the amount of air these turbos put out...
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You're overlooking one important thing here: TIMING

You can still blow your motor with even a 10.5:1 AFR. It's possible, Iv'e seen it. Get too greedy with timing and you will get detonation, and a nice trip in the tow truck home. How does the stock ECU handle timing? Have you even looked into it? If it's still feeding timing like there's no tomorrow and (it really doesn't know) about the larger turbo, things can break.
 
chriscecc914 said:
the wastegate is set for 18psi
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thats where your problem is dude. sorry to hear that about your engin. i have the same kit and ATP says that it is set at 18 but its not!!!

when i got the kit i had it checked and the wastgate was at 23psi , im sure that yours was as well....

so i had to turn down the wastgate to 14psi and now i control it with my MBC that i set at 20 psi and it never goes over that. so i have had zero problems ....

this car is well built unless u are boosting over with no tuning. if i wouldnt of fixed the wastgate i would have been in the same place as you guys... you cant just install the kit and drive, u have to lower the wastegate and set the boost with an mbc or ebc if you have one.
 
so ok reading this whole thread and especially the last post i understand what i need to do to install the big turbo, im gonna go with the 71R and contol the boost with a EBC im think of setting the wastegate to 14psi and the contoller to 17psi... i should have no problems running that setup right?

other guys are running that boost up to 20psi and i want to be conservative until i have it dyno'd which wont be for a while.
 
Maxx Mazda said:
You're overlooking one important thing here: TIMING

You can still blow your motor with even a 10.5:1 AFR. It's possible, Iv'e seen it. Get too greedy with timing and you will get detonation, and a nice trip in the tow truck home. How does the stock ECU handle timing? Have you even looked into it? If it's still feeding timing like there's no tomorrow and (it really doesn't know) about the larger turbo, things can break.
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J&S safeguard or some sort of piggy back system for timing control, enough said
 
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MS6freek said:
thats where your problem is dude. sorry to hear that about your engin. i have the same kit and ATP says that it is set at 18 but its not!!!

when i got the kit i had it checked and the wastgate was at 23psi , im sure that yours was as well....

so i had to turn down the wastgate to 14psi and now i control it with my MBC that i set at 20 psi and it never goes over that. so i have had zero problems ....

this car is well built unless u are boosting over with no tuning. if i wouldnt of fixed the wastgate i would have been in the same place as you guys... you cant just install the kit and drive, u have to lower the wastegate and set the boost with an mbc or ebc if you have one.
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bottom line is, you don't slap on big upgrades like a turbo without actually having monitoring devices even if you "don't" have to tune your s***
 
Maxx Mazda said:
Just used hypothetical numbers man. The point I was making is that on the same bosot, that GT30 will flow WAY more air than the K04. Your thinking is wrong.
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How is my thinking wrong? THe guy not having a tune is not what killed his motor? The stock tune, with no mods to it is veeeerrrrry conservative.

Let's start here to clear up the confusion: When you tune specifically the Speed6, can you tell me what parameters YOU would change to make it safer, or less likely to throw a rod as the previousl poster did?

So if you can answer these questions then we can get all our facts straight.
 
And for the record, I am running a 7psi WGA, and I have my system plumbed so that the EMS completely monitors and controlls my boost.

I've personallly installed this turbo at least 5 separate times for various reasons, logged and recorded everything you can, self tuned my own engine.....so I'm not just speaking out of the side of my ass, or simply benchracing and speculated as seems to be the case in this thread.

TO include dyno, monitoring of A/F timing, TPS, MAF voltage for Stock and my Speed in it's current form.
 
Maxx Mazda said:
Sounds like you need to do some research my friend. That turbo is almost 3 times as big. So at the stock 18psi, it's flowing MUCH more air than the stock turbo. Think of it as the stock turbo running 36psi, to stay conservative. To equal the airflow of the stock turbo with the new GT30, he'd have to keep the boost probably around the 10-12psi mark.

So, he probably had some knock, detonated and broke a rod. To think that you can't break a rod from a bad tune is just moronic...
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hahahahah LMAO

okay wow (cheers) (smash) (rofl2)..
at 18psi on the ATP turbo...you are still only building 18psi at the intake manifold. NO MATTER HOW MUCH BETTER IT FLOWS AIR. wow..total misconception.

something was not hooked up correctly.

and i agree with forest when he says, a turbo on this car without a tune will not cause a rod to break (thumb)
 
Um? I'll jsut go ahead and say that you know not what you are talking about.

18psi is NOT 18psi. Look at AMOUNT of air man. How many CFM's does the stock compressor flow? Now look at the map for the GT30.

That's what I thought...

pHeeL tHiZ ViBe said:
hahahahah LMAO

okay wow (cheers) (smash) (rofl2)..
at 18psi on the ATP turbo...you are still only building 18psi at the intake manifold. NO MATTER HOW MUCH BETTER IT FLOWS AIR. wow..total misconception.

something was not hooked up correctly.

and i agree with forest when he says, a turbo on this car without a tune will not cause a rod to break (thumb)
Click to expand...
 
Maxx Mazda said:
Um? I'll jsut go ahead and say that you know not what you are talking about.

18psi is NOT 18psi. Look at AMOUNT of air man. How many CFM's does the stock compressor flow? Now look at the map for the GT30.

That's what I thought...
Click to expand...

HAHA i try to refrain from calling people ignorant..or even dumbasses. but you good sir are an ignorant dumbass.(chair)

18psi is NOT 18psi? LOLOLOL (gtfo)
just because the turbo is capable of flowing more air (cfm's), and therefore capable of reaching higher levels of boost DOES NOT mean that the boost levels (psi) will be different on either turbo if they were set at the same boost.

when the car reaches 18psi the wastegate will then divert the air flow away from the turbine, therefore regulating the intake manifolds pressure at 18psi. hmm..surprised you didn't know that (hump)
 
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sorry, dont mean to threadjack, but is the k04 on the ms6 the same k04 used on vw/audi/porsche? i'm a ms6 n00b
 
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