air filter direct to turbo

actually they gained peak of 5-6 and max gains of about 17hp. Granted this was with a FMIC, but still.
http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/0403tur_mazda/index.html

Also, yes, that should still be the same after being heated.
The amount of heat generated is constant, as spooled pointed out.
If you start with x, and add heat (turbo) you get output=x+turbo heat. If x is dropped 10 degrees, your output will drop 10 degrees as well.
 
byohndspeed said:
like you said its not much. now, how much will you gain with no tubing and all those bends to go through? also, even though you are pulling the air from outside its still going through a warm pipe heating it up. i dont care if its steel, aluminum or whatever, it wil still heat up the air.
not if its plastic. or thermo wrapped. Plus, how long is the air in that pipe when being sucked through by a screaming turbo?
 
true not very long. so why is there always a debate that intercooler piping needs to stay cool. and you need to use one metal over another. and if its not in there long, why wrap it. i disagree with this "If x is dropped 10 degrees, your output will drop 10 degrees as well" i look at it like this..boil some water, take a infared temp gun and take the temp of your finger lets say 90* stick it in the water for 1 sec. and retake temp. now run your finger under water for a few to get cold. lets say you get 70* then repeat other process. i dont think you will see a 20* diff. maybe only 10 or 15.
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I say try it out. Maybe there will be a noticeable difference, maybe not. There really isn't a good way to find out besides doing it.
 
what i was getting at was, i see it on all the big boys out there with tons of hp. i was more curious to see if anyone has tried this yet...
 
Well, here is the SCC info I was referring to

From issue "10/2005"

Letter titled - "They" say dumb things

I just bought a 2004 SRT-4 and I wanted to change the factory intake. I was thinking about a cold-air intake, but I have heard from a few people that a cold-air will work the same as a short ram because the turbo heats the air to a constant temperature when it passes through anyway. Is this true? If you could give me some advice I would appreciate it. SCC is sick.

Answered by Dave Coleman

Dave goes on to explaint that
"That hot-air-equals-cold-air theory is a steaming pile of cat poo wrapped in a thin veil of truth. the only true part is the turbo will heat the air anyway. The steaming cat poo comes right about the time "they" start saying the air coming out of the turbo is the same temperature regarless of the temperature going in."
"In the simplest terms, the air temperature actually increases a fixed amount going through the turbo. So if the turbo normally sucks in 60-degree air and spits out 160-degree air, sucking in 100-degree air will make it spit out 200-degree air."
"In reality, it's slightly worse than that. Actual temperature change across a compressor can be calculated with this arcane formula:"

Temperature Rise = (Tin*[pressure ratio^0.238 -1])/Compressor efficiency

"To make the arcane formula work you have to use absolute temperature on the Rankine scale for the inlet temp, which means you take Fahrenheit and add 460 degrees. So 60 degrees F is 520 degrees R."
"Pressure ratio is absolute pressure (boost plus 14.7 psi atmoshperic) divided by atmospheric pressure. So if you run 14.7 psi of boost, the pressure ratio will be 2.0. Let's use that 'cause it's easy. Then let's use 0.73 as the compressor efficiency, since I was born in 1973."
"In that particular case, the arcane forumla insists that air will come out of the turbo 128 degrees hotter than it went in (for a total of 188-degrees F). Now, if we increase intake air temperature to 100 degrees, the temperature rise is 138 degrees (again, a total of 238 degrees F). Air in went up 40 degrees, air out went up 50 degrees."
"In other words, cold air is important in any car, but it's even more important on a boosted one."


Phew - that was long, but sums it up, no?
 
byohndspeed said:
what i was getting at was, i see it on all the big boys out there with tons of hp. i was more curious to see if anyone has tried this yet...
Maybe on drag cars they do if for packaging?
 
i will be running a bov, and a filter on the pvc.

Bradc, i understand how the turbo will make the air hotter and if it is colder going in, it will come out colder. but you have to factor in the intercooler yet. and i know that will be the same but have its own factor since that works more on a %. either way i will do and record the temps since i have a temp gauge that will be installed in 2 weeks. it will be temporary but will do the job. and see what happens. i am sure that the temp will be higher than with a cai, but i think that since the filter will be on the turbo the lesser amount of retriction on the intake side will overcome the temp issue.
 
BradC said:
Well, here is the SCC info I was referring to

From issue "10/2005"

Letter titled - "They" say dumb things

.....................

Phew - that was long, but sums it up, no?

Amen, brother Brad.
 
byohndspeed said:
i will be running a bov, and a filter on the pvc.

Bradc, i understand how the turbo will make the air hotter and if it is colder going in, it will come out colder. but you have to factor in the intercooler yet. and i know that will be the same but have its own factor since that works more on a %. either way i will do and record the temps since i have a temp gauge that will be installed in 2 weeks. it will be temporary but will do the job. and see what happens. i am sure that the temp will be higher than with a cai, but i think that since the filter will be on the turbo the lesser amount of retriction on the intake side will overcome the temp issue.
Good idea. Are you still going to be running the MAF on the intake pipe, or is it on the boosted side? I would imagine if you are planning on sticking the cone on the snail, you moved it. I would think the MAF would be the biggest restriction in the intake, but if moved..well then. Try it and post results, good or bad!
 
BradC said:
Good idea. Are you still going to be running the MAF on the intake pipe, or is it on the boosted side? I would imagine if you are planning on sticking the cone on the snail, you moved it. I would think the MAF would be the biggest restriction in the intake, but if moved..well then. Try it and post results, good or bad!
N/M saw original post about moved MAF.
 
Another good idea is to switch to a larger MAF is you are concerned about the restriction.
 
a larger maf will be down the road when i get an ems. right now i have a fmic coming that is setup for the maf on the cold pipe, and i just figured that by reducing the amount of distance to the turbo would outweight or be equal to the loss of the heat., then i caould sell my cai and use that torwards getting ems and a larger maf..
 
Ooh, since you have both a CAI and your soon-to-be "short ram," perhaps you could get some dyno results for us? =D
 
i was thinking of getting a before and after on the intake setup. i would like to get one done before i do the fmic but the nearest dyno is 2 hours away..
 
jeffmsp said:
aaah i dont think so ;) i dont think a few degrees in intake temp is making a difference going into something that hot. ive experimented with severals CAI and SRI and no diff, i believe its the IAT that is affected by the cold air thus making more power. even if it did make a diff im thinking less than 1 HP.
Well, the air coming into my intake is about 60-70 degrees cooler than the air inside the engine bay, especially at that smoking hot turbo! I know there's a difference.
 
byohndspeed said:
i was thinking of getting a before and after on the intake setup. i would like to get one done before i do the fmic but the nearest dyno is 2 hours away..
Take a donation.

Make a post "donate to the MSP awareness fund". Raise money to do dyno time, and change the intake from CAI to right on turbo on the same day/apples to apples thing. I will paypal a few bucks. See if you can get discounted time for setting up a "dyno day". Make a deal with the operator that if you can get 10 cars there, you get free pulls or something...
 
get 10 cars from where? i live in crapville. no big deal i will pay for it. i want it done anyway.. i will kepp everyone updated..
 
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