So I'm doing the timing belt and trying to take the crank pulley off... But I have the UR underdrive pulley and it doesn't have those two bolt holes like the stock one does, is there any way of removing a pulley that doesn't have those bolt holes???
Timing belt replacement on 1.8 (2.0) Proteges
- Thread starter gozz
- Start date
Hmmm, that's a hard one to figure out... (uhm)
Well, either try to use a powerful air impact tool, or you can try to crank the engine...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgY3-cAelWo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Zu5g95gpqo
BUT you need to know what you are DOING!!!! (sparkplugs have to be taken out so there's no compression to ease the cranking..., etc)
or you can try and use a solid wrench (being solid means in one piece, like a tire stud wrench) and whack it with a hammer to try to unbolt it...
Or, just drill the darn two holes... (dunno)
But I really suggest using impact air wrench...
Well, come to think of it, scratch the written above... ->
The UR pulleys usually have at least several holes (openings) of some sort to shave off some weight like the three oval holes here:
So take a huge flat head screwdriver, jam it through the hole against the engine block, and block the pulley from spinning... Yeah, there we go!!!!
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so this is the one that i have...now i do see that there some slots towards the back so i can see if there are those on mine, but unfortunately i do not think that mine has the same thing...
i will take out the spark plugs though, i never thought about the compression issue.
so the engine still turns when i have the car in any gear, is this normal???
thanks for all your help!
ill post again if i cannot figure anything out!
so this is the one that i have...now i do see that there some slots towards the back so i can see if there are those on mine, but unfortunately i do not think that mine has the same thing...
If you are thinking about the jagged (serrated) rim, don't mess with those spikes coz they are needed for the crank sensor to detect it's movement...
yeah, you put the gearbox in neutral, and if you decide to crank the engine to try and let the bolt loose, you will need all the power the electric starter has, so you do not want the compression to take all the power!!! Just be sure to crank it for just a second or so, coz the starter will have a hard time to turn, so it will be stressed and might burn out... Just do as they did in the Y/T video...
so the engine still turns when i have the car in any gear, is this normal???
thanks for all your help!
ill post again if i cannot figure anything out!
Yes, there is a flex and slack in the system, (it has to be that way, otherwise the system would snap if you dump the clutch or stall the engine)... the flex / slack is in the gears in the gearbox, shafts, clutch, dampers, so all added up, you can turn the crankshaft up to 360 degrees, while barely getting 1 degree on your wheels!
But as you continue rotating the c/s, you will eventually spin your wheels, BUT do not try to apply brakes on the wheels and try to undo the bolt that way, I had explained why in a few posts above this text... (1st page post #12)
Let me know how it turns out!!!!! -Show that pulley who's the boss!!!!
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so... i studied those youtube videos and tried it, first time, the bolt came loose! yay!
and yeah, i only cranked it for about a second or or less, that's all it needed since the bolt has been loosened before from putting on the UR pulley.
now i took my whole side engine mount out for more room to work, i know it's probably not necessary, but it helps. (i do have the engine support with a jack though!)
i got everything out except for the water pump which i am going to replace too!
one thing that i did have to buy extra, two things, a 17mm deep-well socket for the side engine mount bolts and a 21mm socket for the crank bolt... just didn't have those on hand, lol
all this stuff is not really that hard, it just takes time, and is frustrating sometimes if/when you get stuck on something!
just for reference for others too, cost of everything you might need:
timing belt,
tensioner,
tensioner kit (includes: spring and other two tensioner wheels),
water pump w/ gasket,
and valve cover gasket...
...all came out to be about $250 (i got a employee discount though since a friend works a parts store) but it will be around that price.
all n' all, not a bad price to do something yourself that would be close to $1000 at a shop!
thanks for all your help!
and yeah, i only cranked it for about a second or or less, that's all it needed since the bolt has been loosened before from putting on the UR pulley.
now i took my whole side engine mount out for more room to work, i know it's probably not necessary, but it helps. (i do have the engine support with a jack though!)
i got everything out except for the water pump which i am going to replace too!
one thing that i did have to buy extra, two things, a 17mm deep-well socket for the side engine mount bolts and a 21mm socket for the crank bolt... just didn't have those on hand, lol
all this stuff is not really that hard, it just takes time, and is frustrating sometimes if/when you get stuck on something!
just for reference for others too, cost of everything you might need:
timing belt,
tensioner,
tensioner kit (includes: spring and other two tensioner wheels),
water pump w/ gasket,
and valve cover gasket...
...all came out to be about $250 (i got a employee discount though since a friend works a parts store) but it will be around that price.
all n' all, not a bad price to do something yourself that would be close to $1000 at a shop!
thanks for all your help!
OK, glad everything worked out OK! back here in Croatia, they would charge approx. $200 (minimum), just for labor.
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Well this is all fine and lovely for loosening the bolt, but how are you supposed to retighten it to 160 Nm? I presume the starter cannot be run in reverse? (nana)
Hmmm, yes, that is a hard one...(uhm)
Well, you can always use an oil filter wrench hooked around the pulley...
(boom07)(smash)
And use my "magic marker" method...
Ummm, I dunno, I'll have to check. It is what we call here a "standard" M8 thread. I believe it's 1.25 pitch.
Do you have a hard time buying them there?
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the way that i tightened the c/s bolt is have one person tightening the bolt while the other holds two wrenches i think they're 23 or 24mm one on each of the camshafts... we got both of the marker lines to line up, so it worked! it just takes a lot of effort to hold the camshafts still...
my question is: i finished everything and took it out for a drive... but there is a noticeable ticking sound that follows the revs and the idle is quite rougher than before i did the timing belt. There's no vac leak, bad egr (i don't have one), or maf, they were fine before i did all this work on the car...
so the question is, if i was one tooth off when i put on the belt, how much of an effect on the engine would there be?
my question is: i finished everything and took it out for a drive... but there is a noticeable ticking sound that follows the revs and the idle is quite rougher than before i did the timing belt. There's no vac leak, bad egr (i don't have one), or maf, they were fine before i did all this work on the car...
so the question is, if i was one tooth off when i put on the belt, how much of an effect on the engine would there be?
Well, that is the most dangerous (by far) method of tightening the bolt...
Why? well, you just took off 50 000 miles of your belt!!!
Why? because, youo have used the belt itself, and alone to block the pulley!!!!! The belt had to withstand the force of locking the pulley for the bolt to be tightened. And we are talking here about 100 times more force than it would ever encounter in normal turning of the camshafts...
Plus, the camshaft pulleys as you had hold them, might have undone
them selves...
Not to mention the possibility of slipping a tooth or two...
As I just mentioned, there is a possibility of slipping a tooth or two while tightening the C/s pulley, coz once you have tightened it, there's no way to see the marking on the c/s pulley, due to c/s it self and the protective plastic cover obstructing the view...
Even one tooth can seriously compromise engines performance...
So this is my guess... Yes, it probably skipped a tooth or two... But, on the other hand, it might not be the case....
Anyways, I will tell you what you probably don't want to hear: (shrug)
Take the belt out, replace it with the new one, recheck the cam shaft pulley bolts, recheck the markings, and tighten the pulley using some other way of blocking the c/s pulley and nothing else!!! Use an oil filter tool, use an impact tool...
And, after you have all the belt stuff sorted out, see if the ticking persists, (which I doubt it will), and start off from there!
Ok, here's the how-to for tightening the boltless c/s pulley, the way I did it once but on the other car, not Mazda though...
Take the old serpentine belt, (I suppose everyone replaces them when changing the timing belts...) and wrap the belt around the pulley and cut the belt shorter, co the belt goes nicely completely around the pulley - now you have made heavy-duty protection grip for the oil wrench to sit on.
Get a professional quality iol wrench
and go for it...
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Gozz,
As a new member, I wanted to compliment you on an outstanding how-to. I tackled this job about 2 weeks ago and I couldn't have done it without your help; saved me about $850.
Two more tools I found very handy for the job:
- 3/8' ratchet with a swivel head
- 1 1/2" extension for 3/8" drive
Again, thanks for the help!
As a new member, I wanted to compliment you on an outstanding how-to. I tackled this job about 2 weeks ago and I couldn't have done it without your help; saved me about $850.
Two more tools I found very handy for the job:
- 3/8' ratchet with a swivel head
- 1 1/2" extension for 3/8" drive
Again, thanks for the help!
Glad to be of assistance!!!
Yeah, but I dunno why you wouldn't change the water pump.
Hmmm, yes, that is a hard one...(uhm)
Well, you can always use an oil filter wrench hooked around the pulley...
(boom07)(smash)
And use my "magic marker" method...
I ended up just hitting mine again with the impact to tighten it. 4 months later and all is well.
Hi,
I'm doing the timing belt, roller, tensioner and water pump job per this post and threads. Great post and threads. Thanks! I've also been taking some pics and notes and have a couple suggestions and minor corrections. The new water pump and belt roller are installed, but I'm stuck on step #21. Here it is again (in quotes):
"21. Put the new tensioner and tighten it. (do not put the tension spring on yet!!!) This type of tensioners used on 1.8 and 2.0 proteges operates by a spring tension and auto-adjustment feature, meaning that even if it is tightened all the way, it will still swivel back and forth, as the spring pushes on it against the belt..."
If you were inside the engine looking at the back of the tensioner, you would notice the mounting large bolt hole, and a smaller "locator" hole next to the large hole. Here's a pic:
http://cid-0ba9610cbd3ba347.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Protege%202002/tensioner.JPG
Only problem is that there is no locator hole "pin" on the block to match up with that locator hole. So the question is, how do you position the tensioner before tightening up on the bolt?
Only thing I could think of is that since that other sources on the web say, "Check the tensioner spring length, if the free length is not 1.44 inch (36.5mm), replace the spring". That could mean install tensioner this way: install the bolt, but do not tighten it down fully yet. Next install the spring. The tension arm position will now be determined by the length of the spring (ie. the tensioner will fall freely counterclockwise but no farther then the length of the spring will permit). Is that what is supposed to happen?
I will appreciate your help on this.
Regards,
Brcobrem
I'm doing the timing belt, roller, tensioner and water pump job per this post and threads. Great post and threads. Thanks! I've also been taking some pics and notes and have a couple suggestions and minor corrections. The new water pump and belt roller are installed, but I'm stuck on step #21. Here it is again (in quotes):
"21. Put the new tensioner and tighten it. (do not put the tension spring on yet!!!) This type of tensioners used on 1.8 and 2.0 proteges operates by a spring tension and auto-adjustment feature, meaning that even if it is tightened all the way, it will still swivel back and forth, as the spring pushes on it against the belt..."
If you were inside the engine looking at the back of the tensioner, you would notice the mounting large bolt hole, and a smaller "locator" hole next to the large hole. Here's a pic:
http://cid-0ba9610cbd3ba347.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Protege%202002/tensioner.JPG
Only problem is that there is no locator hole "pin" on the block to match up with that locator hole. So the question is, how do you position the tensioner before tightening up on the bolt?
Only thing I could think of is that since that other sources on the web say, "Check the tensioner spring length, if the free length is not 1.44 inch (36.5mm), replace the spring". That could mean install tensioner this way: install the bolt, but do not tighten it down fully yet. Next install the spring. The tension arm position will now be determined by the length of the spring (ie. the tensioner will fall freely counterclockwise but no farther then the length of the spring will permit). Is that what is supposed to happen?
I will appreciate your help on this.
Regards,
Brcobrem
1. Put the spring on the tensioner like you have in that picture.
2. Bolt the tensioner to the block, and tighten it completely.
3. Spin the tensioner around so that the spring is at the top, and hook the free end of the spring onto the little pin that is on the block.
Make sure your timing belt is still lined up. If not, take the spring off the pin and try it again.
You don't need to match the smaller hole in the tensioner with anything on the block - the pulley spins around so you can align it after you bolt the tensioner on. Just be sure to torque it down all the way - don't "half" install it and then tighten it down later.
