fuel pump internals upgrade 101
- Thread starter cghms3
- Start date
I have one of these for my Dashhawk.
I have a catch can and I've seafoamed every 10k miles, but I'm not sure how much it's helping. I haven't pulled my intake manifold to inspect the valves yet. In the past, I've used the liquid Seafoam through the brake booster line. Just disconnect the brake booster where it connects to the firewall and follow the directions on the can.
I have a catch can and I've seafoamed every 10k miles, but I'm not sure how much it's helping. I haven't pulled my intake manifold to inspect the valves yet. In the past, I've used the liquid Seafoam through the brake booster line. Just disconnect the brake booster where it connects to the firewall and follow the directions on the can.
dannythall
Member
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- Mazdaspeed3
Thanks for the info magicka on seafoaming. I'll give it a whirl next oil change.
And another couple parameters to monitor would be long-term fuel trims (LTFT) and Knock Retard (KR).
LTFT basically tells you how well your MAF is calibrated, which is essentially the back bone of your tune. To keep it simple anything within +/-8 is acceptable, I personally think you want to aim for +/-4 (2 is basically perfection). Things like temperature, altitude and especially intake bolt ons (your cai) will toy with these numbers. I've heard the hypertech unit adjusts for the intake you have when it asks whether you have one, but my experience with general, OTS maps is that its a crap shoot on whether or not they adjust properly. So seeing where this sits is a good idea.
KR measures how you engine is compensating for knock, you want this number ideally at 0 always, you may see some (I see a little around 5000rpm of .38) but generally any number over 2 is a red flag. Watch this number/log during wot driving.
Other than that magicka covered it. If all these numbers look good then rock on and stick with your hypertech unit, I've heard good things. If not well then you might want to reconsider your options.
And another couple parameters to monitor would be long-term fuel trims (LTFT) and Knock Retard (KR).
LTFT basically tells you how well your MAF is calibrated, which is essentially the back bone of your tune. To keep it simple anything within +/-8 is acceptable, I personally think you want to aim for +/-4 (2 is basically perfection). Things like temperature, altitude and especially intake bolt ons (your cai) will toy with these numbers. I've heard the hypertech unit adjusts for the intake you have when it asks whether you have one, but my experience with general, OTS maps is that its a crap shoot on whether or not they adjust properly. So seeing where this sits is a good idea.
KR measures how you engine is compensating for knock, you want this number ideally at 0 always, you may see some (I see a little around 5000rpm of .38) but generally any number over 2 is a red flag. Watch this number/log during wot driving.
Other than that magicka covered it. If all these numbers look good then rock on and stick with your hypertech unit, I've heard good things. If not well then you might want to reconsider your options.
that looks like a good location for the Dashhawk, majicka, what mount did you use, or does it come with the Dashhawk(by the way, is Dashhawk made by MSD?). And thanks for the clarification on seafoaming, all great info again! And thanks dannythall for the added info on what parameters to monitor - will the Dashhawk cover these areas too?
Yes, the Dashhawk is made by MSD. The mount I use is made by Custom Performance Engineering.
Thanks again magicka, they will be on order (hopefully) next month - I noticed it sits above the drivers side-window defrost vent. Does that render it useless? Lastly, is seafoam available from my local parts store (in my case, O'reilly autoparts).
I went on MSD's website, but they did not have a listings for the 2009 mazdaspeed 3. Is the DashHawk generic (ie, adapts to any car via the OBD port), or is there a specific part number, and could you point me in the right direction - what website carries the DashHawk for our model.
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- 2003.5 MSP
Edgeautosport is a great site and JP and Eric are great guys to deal with, ive been super happy with the service and everything ive gotten from them. the hypertech tune does increase the max boost on your car, and if you did the tune that eliminates the boost restriction in 1&2 gear than your putting that much more pressure on your stock pump. i have the 2008.5 and my car ran fine for about a year on the hypertech tune but then the stock pump started to crap out. biggest thing you should get first is something to monitor your car, dashhawk or the aeroforce scan gauge etc. every car should have some kind of monitoring system, just good sense. upgraded fuel pump always a good idea, your car will perform better after anyway.
More good advice zoomzoomMSP, thanks! I did call edgeautosport and worked with Eric - great guy, and very informative. I did order the Autotech fuel pump internals, and a James Barone stage 2 oil catch can. I did take off the restrictions on 1st and 2nd gears, but from all the input about higher boost from the Hypertech, I will drive it easy for a couple of days, until the parts arrive! Next on the list will be the DashHawk, but due to finances (or lack of), I will have to wait a month or two. Thanks again!
Hi SRH_3GT - I had the Autotech internals installed a few weeks ago, and I can definitely feel the difference in drivability - the car is MUCH smoother, and transitions into boost (around 3k rpms) without that sudden jolt, and runs smoother at part-throttle. Im very happy with the upgrade, and I think should be one of the first upgrrades to our cars, the second being the rear motor mount (I put in a Sure rmm in at under 1000 miles). Now I need to save up for a monitoring device, still not sure what to get - Im a newbie, and I know I want to monitor boost, A/F, K/R. I am not sure what else to monitor, and what device to purchase (in about 2 months, hopefully!)
Thanks!!
Just a point (personal opinion) about high pressure fuel pump performance. I had a failing cam driven fuel pump on my car after about 60,000 miles or so. Monitoring showed a variance between commanded fuel pressure and fuel rail pressure as delivered to the injectors. That's the only way you will really know if the pump is keeping up with the demand the ECU is calling for. (Well, also monitoring injector pulse width would give you a clue, because if pressure drops, then the spray duration increases to try to compensate and maintain target AFR's).
Now, with the new internals (yes, AutoTech), with my mods and modest HT tune, the fuel rail pressure is able to match demand and frequently I see available pressure higher than commanded pressure, sometimes as high as 1900-2000 psi. But actual volume is adjusted and maintained by injector pulse width to shorten the length of time the injector stays open, so that the correct volume of fuel is being delivered.
Technically, unless there is a huge variation or unless the stock pump is failing, you should not be able to obtain any benefit on stock tune or HT type tunes from upgrading the pump. It is a safety issue to give you additional "headroom" for higher fuel demand, rather than an actual power making mod, IMHO.
Theoretically, a higher pressure fuel "shot" of shorter duration, delivering the same volume of fuel, should atomize the fuel better and might produce a bit more power and maybe provide better cylinder cooling. In practice, on stock ECU and turbo and pump gas, it is highly speculative that the car will actually drive differently or make more power than on a "good" stock pump.
I think our pumps are marginal, even on a pure stock car, so this is an excellent mod regardless. I do not see any actual power gain from the pump internals upgrade at my mod level. But I have protected and saved the engine from the consequences of a failing pump. For those who are going with bigger turbos and injectors or running exotic fuel blends and have much higher fueling requirements, increasing power may very well depend on the extra ability of the AutoTech pump to deliver both greater volume and greater pressure.
Now, with the new internals (yes, AutoTech), with my mods and modest HT tune, the fuel rail pressure is able to match demand and frequently I see available pressure higher than commanded pressure, sometimes as high as 1900-2000 psi. But actual volume is adjusted and maintained by injector pulse width to shorten the length of time the injector stays open, so that the correct volume of fuel is being delivered.
Technically, unless there is a huge variation or unless the stock pump is failing, you should not be able to obtain any benefit on stock tune or HT type tunes from upgrading the pump. It is a safety issue to give you additional "headroom" for higher fuel demand, rather than an actual power making mod, IMHO.
Theoretically, a higher pressure fuel "shot" of shorter duration, delivering the same volume of fuel, should atomize the fuel better and might produce a bit more power and maybe provide better cylinder cooling. In practice, on stock ECU and turbo and pump gas, it is highly speculative that the car will actually drive differently or make more power than on a "good" stock pump.
I think our pumps are marginal, even on a pure stock car, so this is an excellent mod regardless. I do not see any actual power gain from the pump internals upgrade at my mod level. But I have protected and saved the engine from the consequences of a failing pump. For those who are going with bigger turbos and injectors or running exotic fuel blends and have much higher fueling requirements, increasing power may very well depend on the extra ability of the AutoTech pump to deliver both greater volume and greater pressure.
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I see your point MSMS3, I guess I was wrong about better performance. One area I was concerned about (and you may have clarified), was 1) does the higher fuel pump pressure put more fuel into the cylinders (at any pedal position, from idle to full throttle), and if so, would that mean it would run more rich, and 2) would the car fail on a smog test (I live in California). So from what you stated, the ecu will adjust for the different fuel pressure and readjust the air/fuel ratio. Thanks for the info!
Question to MSMS3 - I noticed on your mod list that you have the Mazdaspeed CAI with a K&N Filter - I want to upgrade to a K&N filter too - the Mazdaspeed one is not very good. Could you tell me what the model/part number is for the K&N? Thanks in advance.
Not wishing to jack the thread, I'll be brief, chgms3. The AEM Dry Flow filter that came with the CAI was excellent. It just did not hold up well to repeated cleaning. I just went to Auto Zone and asked them if they had a K&N oiled cotton filter for the Mazdaspeed CAI for a gen 1 MS3. They looked it up, said they did, ordered it and it came in in about 2 days. Don't recall the part number. I think any auto parts store that has K&N filters could do the same thing.
I don't think a fuel pump internal upgrade will "put more fuel in the cylinders." All it does is allow the pump to keep up with the commanded demand from the ECU. In other words, the ECU controls the amount of fuel. The pump just makes sure that it is there when needed. It would not make you run more rich than the ECU wants, it will help prevent you from running too lean because you will always have the capability to provide the fuel volume and pressure that the ECU is asking for, if that makes sense.
It should have absolutely no effect on emission testing.
Thanks for the clarification MSMS3 - one less thing to worry about, and the bottom line is that the Autotech internals will keep the fuel pressure in the proper range, and if I want to do more upgrades, I have the piece of mind that it won't lean out or fail.
