Diesel engine failure

[ejo]

My 3 months old CX-5 (150 hp diesel, run approx. 2000 km) broke down on christmas day and is still at the dealership for repair. The symptoms are excessive smoke out the exhaust pipes, and loss of engine oil, root cause still unknown. Last time I visited the dealership, they had opened up much of the engine, with parts all over the place. Must say I am surprised at how complicated a new diesel engine is. It seems to me this is something that is best put together once and for all at the factory, and from then on maintained according to spec to work as is over a reasonable service life. It appears not to be something to be opened up when the car is brand new to figure out why it does not work.

I have sought legal advice, and was told engine failure is a significant defect for a new car, and even if Mazda should extend the warranty after repair, it would be very hard, in practice, to point at a connection between any following failures and the original repair, and was therefore advised to demand refund or re-delivery.

Anyone else had the engine fail like this after this few miles on the meter? Did they find the root cause? How did Mazda deal with the issue?

Thanks.

 

[outpost22]

That is not good news. When you say it "broke down", did the engine stop? Did you hear "clanking' sounds? Please clarify. When you say "loss of engine oil", do you mean visually seeing oil seeping/spilling out of the engine, or high oil consumption after driving? I would concur that a new, not rebuilt or remanufactured engine is in order if the failure was significant. If the cause was minor, why would they disassemble the engine, especially if it is "fueling" related to the smoking? It seems that most modern diesel engines are very complicated as they have to meet emission standards, in addition to very high pressure fuel delivery systems. Please keep us posted as to the findings.

 

[dad of jon]

sorry to hear your problem with your car ejo. I think you're the first on the forum to post such a failure. Rising fluid level caused by diesel in the sump was common and a few people had christmas tree lights. There were some cars with failed exhaust pressure sensors.

 

[erhayes]

They must give you a new vehicle. I would demand it or a 100% refund. Ed

 

[ejo]

That is not good news. When you say it "broke down", did the engine stop? Did you hear "clanking' sounds? Please clarify.

I could not hear any unusual sounds. The car started as usual and kept idling for a few minutes with defroster on while I removed snow and ice (the temperature was around -10 celsius). After about 300 meters driving, a wall of smoke developed behind the car. It was so massive that I did not immediately associate it with the car, I thought it was a fire or something outside the car, but a second later the main warning lamp came on, and the info display changed to "engine inspection required". I stopped the car and called Mazda road assistance. They came after 5 hours and found that the engine was almost out of oil, still draining underneath the car. It was then towed to the dealership, where they have examined the turbo, DPF, and opened up the engine with assistance from Mazda, but there are no findings yet to explain how this much oil could escape, or what caused the smoke. The status code does not point at anything specific, it is more like a general failure indication, if I understand it correctly.

I talked to the dealership management today, and was told it was very unlikely that Mazda would accept re-delivery. Mazda would most likely insist on repair, replacing the entire engine if necessary, even if the cost would exceed re-delivery, they said. They would also extend the warranty, but it would be my responsibility to prove that any following failures have anything to do with this repair. I am not in a position to do that, and will therefore send a formal demand for re-delivery to the dealership, no matter what they say, and take it from there.

 

[CX-SV]

Did they give you an equivalent loaner car immediately?

 

[outpost22]

After about 300 meters driving, a wall of smoke developed behind the car. It was so massive that I did not immediately associate it with the car, I thought it was a fire or something outside the car, but a second later the main warning lamp came on, and the info display changed to "engine inspection required".

It would be interesting to know what the laws in Norway are in respect to warranty, buy back. etc. Laws vary state by state here. I can understand you not wanting the car now. I would also say that accepting a NEW (not rebuilt or remanufactured) engine would also be a fair compromise. Seeing smoke like that would seem to indicate a turbo failure (which if it is can send metal parts internally into the engine, destroying it), or a blown engine seal, sending hot oil onto hot exhaust parts. Did the smoke come out of the tail pipe or out of the engine bay? Either way, I feel your distress over the situation. This should prove to be interesting for others to hear how it is resolved.

 

[SomeGuyFromNYC]

In my opinion, requesting a redelivery will be quite tough. I think a completely acceptable "repair" to ask for is an entirely new engine - not rebuilt. A new engine + extended warranty should cover any problems down the road. If there is a new problem, it will be covered under the extended warranty, just like this repair is.

Best of luck, keep us updated!

 

[CXVille]

In my opinion, requesting a redelivery will be quite tough. I think a completely acceptable "repair" to ask for is an entirely new engine - not rebuilt. A new engine + extended warranty should cover any problems down the road. If there is a new problem, it will be covered under the extended warranty, just like this repair is.

Best of luck, keep us updated!

It will be easier and simpler for Mazda to swap cars. No bad press, no real problems. They would have to have a complete, replacement engine, which they may not have handy. After all, I doubt they sell many replacement engines, they will repair them. They can then resell the repaired vehicle as used. Although very rare, things happen and break when new.

 

[SomeGuyFromNYC]

It will be easier and simpler for Mazda to swap cars. No bad press, no real problems. They would have to have a complete, replacement engine, which they may not have handy. After all, I doubt they sell many replacement engines, they will repair them. They can then resell the repaired vehicle as used. Although very rare, things happen and break when new.

In a perfect world this would be the case. The OP even stated the Mazda dealership told him Mazda would be more willing to replace the engine even if it costs more than an entirely new CX5. Why is this? I am not sure, probably has something to do with lawyers.

 

[ejo]

Did they give you an equivalent loaner car immediately?

I would not say equivalent, but I got a small rent car immediately at the towing service. That was pure luck though, they had just one car left for rent, and would otherwise not have been able to provide a vehicle during the holidays, they said. The rent time was limited, and I was therefore without a car for a few days, until the dealership eventually provided a small Hyundai demo car. Not a CX-5 exactly, but I am glad to have some form of transportation.

 

[ejo]

It would be interesting to know what the laws in Norway are in respect to warranty, buy back. etc.

The laws here are quite customer friendly. Still, car manufacturers often use the same 5 year warranty in advertising as used elsewhere, and this has met criticism, since what is advertised appears to be something extra, but usually isn't. Quite the contrary, many brand lists illegal exceptions in their warranty terms, and thus what appears to be more is actually less coverage than what is required by law. There are a few brands offering more than required, Kia for example, offers 7 years / 150.000 km all over Europe. Mazda has average terms as far as I know, i.e. nothing extra, and no significant illegal exceptions.

 

[bxpretzel]

The laws here are quite customer friendly. Still, car manufacturers often use the same 5 year warranty in advertising as used elsewhere, and this has met criticism, since what is advertised appears to be something extra, but usually isn't. Quite the contrary, many brand lists illegal exceptions in their warranty terms, and thus what appears to be more is actually less coverage than what is required by law. There are a few brands offering more than required, Kia for example, offers 7 years / 150.000 km all over Europe. Mazda has average terms as far as I know, i.e. nothing extra, and no significant illegal exceptions.

Lawyer up! I am fairly familiar with lemon laws here in the US but definitely not in Norway. Also, if you had it towed to the dealership, I would have demanded a CX-5. Definitely wouldn't have left with a puny little Hyundai. I don't care if they have to pick a CX-5 off the lot or call another nearby dealer to arrange it!

 

[ejo]

I have got the car back now after 4 weeks at the dealership. Demand for redelivery was rejected, they didn't even bother to answer. I was told the failure was due to the turbocharger, but the root cause is still unknown. There have been two similar cases in Norway, and the original turbo has been sent to Germany for analysis, they said. The repair was a major operation, the engine (and therefore the entire front of the car) had to be removed to get to the turbo. The car seems to work OK now, but I don't trust it anymore. It is going to be replaced with something not Mazda before the warranty runs out, that is for sure.

 

[erhayes]

They should have given you a new vehicle or rebought the car at the price you paid. Ed