Winter tires and TPMS issue

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Beack08

Member
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2011 CX9, liquid silver, black interior
Hi everyone,

I'm new here. Just got my 2011 CX9 two months ago.

Here’s what’s happening. Winter tires are mandatory here (I live in Quebec, Canada). I'm confused with TPMS sensors. I went to a local tires store which gave us a good price on winter tires + 17 inch rims. We have 18 inch rims with the summer tires. Tire swap is generally charged $20 per tire. Swapping wheel only $7/wheel. So as we have to make the change twice a year (spring and winter) we actually save long run by getting the 17 inch rims (plus the tire is less expensive)… so far I’m ok.

Then today I found out about TPMS. For what I was told it monitors tire pressure but also work with electronics like traction control. The mechanic told me that if I get the 17 inch rims (which are these ugly black ones at $75 each) they don't have TPMS sensors and I can’t be guaranteed that traction control will work?! Checked with Mazda (the manufacturer of our CX9), they told us that they don't "think" the traction control is affected - meaning they never tested it... but for sure the yellow light will be on all winter long... (TPMS sensors are $75.00 each).

Has anyone "tested" it? Any input?
 
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My understanding is that TPMS, RSC (roll stability control), DSC (dynamic stability control) and Traction Control are all tied together in some form. Keep in mind that our vehicles are equipped with high tech stuff. CX-9's have yaw rate sensors which can actually sense the vehicle losing control and sliding sideways, its a sensor in the middle/middlish of the car that can sense direction (yaw) such as an airplane would have. Being that traction control and TPMS are both tied together, and that RSC and DSC are tied to TCS, then that would indicate TPMS is tied to all. On our car, you can't even turn the TCS off while driving down the road, it just wont let you. It only lets you turn off the TCS when at a stop, up to I believe 7 mph before it kicks back in, and this is because it is tied in to DSC and RSC.

Now if you want to chance it, and go without this protection system, that's up to you. Just get another set of oem 18's, or find a comparable 18" wheels that you can install the tpms sensors in and see if Mazda will program them for you (on aftermarket wheels).

Go to www.transwheel.com They have remanufactured Mazda 18's for 189.00 each (usd).
 
I have a 2009 CX9 GT without TPMS sensors. They were not available on Canadian spec'd CX9's until late in production that year. Traction Control I don't think is effected at all by TPMS. The only thing that might affect is if the diameter of the tire has changed drastically. I am putting on my winters fairly soon in Alberta as well.
 
TPMS is not related to ABS/TC/VCS/whatever.
It is just to tell you that you got an issue with the tire pressure. That's all.
TPMS is not extremely reliable. It relies on FM signal to communicate with ECU.
I don't think anyone wants to have his/her life depend on FM signal....

ABS/TC/VCS relies an wheel rotation sensors.
Much like cam position sensors, they are often based on magnets.
 
Here is an interesting cutout from Honda: http://techinfo.honda.com/rjanisis/pubs/OM/JA0505/JA0505O00278A.pdf
When tire pressure is too low (or no sensors), the Honda vehicle stability assist is actively engaged.
Also of note, low tire pressure affects traction control. The wheel speed sensor measures magnetic timing which assists the traction
control system and computerized stability control, which all assume good tire pressure.
So if for some reason one of your tires is very low, what do you think could be the end result of an "out-of-control" situation?
Mazda has a technical reference which does state that tpms and tcs are linked, but we will treat that now as speculation because I
have searched through alldatapro and can't find the reference.
My only worry about winter tire/wheel setup with no tpms sensors is in the rare case of an "out-of-control" situation, that
not having the tpms sensors may worsen the "out-of-control" situation.
There is alot of speculation on the internet with support on both sides, so just make sure you make an "informed" decision.
 
Thanks for the replies. So here 2/3 or 66% going towards no TPMS needed...

I called another Mazda dealership to check... this time instead of the 50/50 we "think" that answer... I got a :"we are 100% sure that TPMS doesn't affect traction control or anything else". So dealership: 75% going towards no TPMS needed...

Now I'm at 70% chances. lol
 
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I have a 09 CX-7 GT AWD and live where you do. I got my car a year ago, used, and it did not have the tire pressure sensors on the car. I have the black steel rims for the winter too in order to protect the mags from our salt. They get destroy after a few years. Anyways, yes it would be nice to have a sensor to tell you when your tires low, and for blondes anyways, its a good investment. Otherwise your traction control and stability should not be affected unless you don't check your tires regularly. That being said, if you have a blowout, tire pressure sensors won't make a difference, and with our pot holes and all the construction going on.....! I picked up two nails this summer. If you have a flat tire while driving and don't notice it, summer or winter, I don't know what to tell you.
 
We have a CX-9 and a Mazdaspeed 3 at home. For the speed3, I recently started running summer tires in the summer, and winter tires in the...winter! For the winter tires I got a tire/steel rim package without TPMS, and while the winter tires do grip much better than a set of run-down all-seasons, I don't feel a difference in traction control, stability control, etc. than I did when I had all-seasons for the winter with the TPMS working. The only thing is that the tire pressure light will be on the entire winter since the car is not picking up the signal from the missing sensors. As for TPMS working actively with stability protection, if it does indeed do that it has to be a very, very mild effect, since the most active effect when you start fish-tailing out of control is to cut power off to wheels that don't need them and to brake wheels that need to be braked in order to regain trajectory. Once you are out of control, the car wants to get you back on track, and I don't think it gives a darn about your low tire pressure at that point.

On another note, for the CX-9 I have a good set of all-seasons, but I don't run them down to 2/32" (the legal limit), since in the winter 2/32" that does nothing to help traction. A winter tire is considered garbage by the time it gets to 6/32", so I compromise and will drive on 4/32" in the winter on the all-seasons, but not any lower. The AWD does help with getting going, but don't fool yourself, AWD does nothing to help in keeping traction during turning or stopping--that's entirely the tire's job.
 
To clarify, I just checked the wiring diagram of VSC of CX9.
It takes inputs of ABS wheel speed sensors, and steering angle. I did not see TPMS sensor inputs.
 
It is of course important to keep tires at the proper pressure and TPMS helps. But I can't think of any way that the TPMS data would be useful for any of the systems mentioned in posts above. These systems monitor things like steering angle and yaw of the vehicle to determine if there is a handling issue and then will apply brakes and/or cut power to try to resolve it. I don't think that these systems would act any differently if they had information about tire pressure.
 
Beack08 said:
Hi everyone,

I'm new here. Just got my 2011 CX9 two months ago.

Here’s what’s happening. Winter tires are mandatory here (I live in Quebec, Canada). I'm confused with TPMS sensors. I went to a local tires store which gave us a good price on winter tires + 17 inch rims. We have 18 inch rims with the summer tires. Tire swap is generally charged $20 per tire. Swapping wheel only $7/wheel. So as we have to make the change twice a year (spring and winter) we actually save long run by getting the 17 inch rims (plus the tire is less expensive)… so far I’m ok.

Then today I found out about TPMS. For what I was told it monitors tire pressure but also work with electronics like traction control. The mechanic told me that if I get the 17 inch rims (which are these ugly black ones at $75 each) they don't have TPMS sensors and I can’t be guaranteed that traction control will work?! Checked with Mazda (the manufacturer of our CX9), they told us that they don't "think" the traction control is affected - meaning they never tested it... but for sure the yellow light will be on all winter long... (TPMS sensors are $75.00 each).

Has anyone "tested" it? Any input?
Click to expand...

Just got a 2011 CX-9 GT myself, and I'm also in Montreal. Do you have an update regarding your TPMS and winter tire set up? Did you end up getting the TPMS sensors from somewhere?

Does the GS and GT have the same size calipers (I need to get my hands on the CX-9 parts diagram). Do 17" rims fit on the CX-9 GT or do I have to get 18" winter wheels? I'd love to go 17" to save some $$$
 
helbigtw said:
Here is an interesting cutout from Honda: http://techinfo.honda.com/rjanisis/pubs/OM/JA0505/JA0505O00278A.pdf
When tire pressure is too low (or no sensors), the Honda vehicle stability assist is actively engaged.
Click to expand...

I think Honda tries to be cautious by disallowing VSA to turn off (stays on) when TPMS gives out a warning.
That is all. A bit over-engineering, if you ask me. But, I see your points.
Mazda's TPMS system, however, is totally independent of VSC/TCS/ABS/etc.

If you do not like to see the TPMS light in the dash, put a small piece of black electrical tape on it to cover it up.
A hacker's solution.
 
On my 97 Passat, I got tired of looking at my check engine light at only 20k miles, so I took the cluster out, snipped the appropriate wire in the cluster harness, and got a 2 position switch from Radio Shack which I installed next to the obd2 plug, had to add some extra length of wire. That way I could just turn the light off, and have the option of turning it back on in case I actually decided to fix the problems causing the light. (my VR6 had one coilpack for all 6 cylinders unlike todays cars which have individual coilpacks for each cylinder, and VW manufactured the coilpack plastic surface too thin, making it vulnerable to cold/wet days, so the slightest un-noticed misfire would set off the check engine light. That along with a catalytic converter that lasted 20k from the factory, but where I lived there were no emissions regulations so it didn't matter) I drove that sucker to 100k before selling it, having the cel switched off the whole time. Genius! (The coilpack pix was to take off the coilpack from the engine, JB Weld the entire surface, let dry, then re-install, worked like a charm)
 
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