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Throttle body????????
- Thread starter Rush24
- Start date
Or maybe you just like to make up imaginary explanations to explain things you don't understand.
Read up some more. Then get back to the discussion.
Here's a primer though.
When something is electronically controlled, how does changing the size of said item effect the response of the electrical equipment attached to it? This is an electronically driven throttlebody, and what works/changes/effects a cable based system, does NOT have the same effect on this one.
Removing restriction, and effecting response, are two entirely different aspects of performance. A dyno doesn't indicate that response was increased, because response is not interrelated with power production.
For added reading, look up how various diameter sizing is done on exhaust/intake inlets to effect the response/performance of the vehicle.
Here's some sites to start off at...
http://www.musclecarclub.com/main.shtml
http://autozine.kyul.net/technical_school/tech_index.htm
http://www.howstuffworks.com
And if you ever want to have a civilized conversation or debate, its best not to try and insult the people your talking to in your post (as I did at the begining at this one) it puts them immediately on the defensive, and prevents a rational conversation from occuring...asshat.
Read up some more. Then get back to the discussion.
Here's a primer though.
When something is electronically controlled, how does changing the size of said item effect the response of the electrical equipment attached to it? This is an electronically driven throttlebody, and what works/changes/effects a cable based system, does NOT have the same effect on this one.
Removing restriction, and effecting response, are two entirely different aspects of performance. A dyno doesn't indicate that response was increased, because response is not interrelated with power production.
For added reading, look up how various diameter sizing is done on exhaust/intake inlets to effect the response/performance of the vehicle.
Here's some sites to start off at...
http://www.musclecarclub.com/main.shtml
http://autozine.kyul.net/technical_school/tech_index.htm
http://www.howstuffworks.com
And if you ever want to have a civilized conversation or debate, its best not to try and insult the people your talking to in your post (as I did at the begining at this one) it puts them immediately on the defensive, and prevents a rational conversation from occuring...asshat.
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yes as crossbow said...the tb will have the same response starting from a dead stop. thats the delay that I hate...I have a cavalier as a rental and the throttle responce is alot better...that doesn't make me feel good at all
(moon)
(moon)
crossbow said:Or maybe you just like to make up imaginary explanations to explain things you don't understand.
Read up some more. Then get back to the discussion.
Here's a primer though.
When something is electronically controlled, how does changing the size of said item effect the response of the electrical equipment attached to it? This is an electronically driven throttlebody, and what works/changes/effects a cable based system, does NOT have the same effect on this one.
Removing restriction, and effecting response, are two entirely different aspects of performance. A dyno doesn't indicate that response was increased, because response is not interrelated with power production.
For added reading, look up how various diameter sizing is done on exhaust/intake inlets to effect the response/performance of the vehicle.
Here's some sites to start off at...
http://www.musclecarclub.com/main.shtml
http://autozine.kyul.net/technical_school/tech_index.htm
http://www.howstuffworks.com
And if you ever want to have a civilized conversation or debate, its best not to try and insult the people your talking to in your post (as I did at the begining at this one) it puts them immediately on the defensive, and prevents a rational conversation from occuring...asshat.
First off how was I insulting you...asshat. If I instulted you with my post then you really need to grow up.
A larger diameter TB does not gain you HP. It is more to help with throttle response. And did you think this was the only Drive-By-Wire made? There are others and they do have larger TB's available for them. CAI helps with throttle response because it opens up the air way!
And it does not matter if one is electronic or not they both have the same basic operating features. You press the gas the butterfly opens, except with a larger TB you draw more air in than the smaller stock.
Since I don't feel my fist post was insulting I feel I should make up for it here!
You can't have a rational conversation with an ass hat that can only answer question using a tech book, owners manual, and searching on the internet. Do some modding, oh wait there aren't any mods for the V6, then come back to me with some real world experience.
I did think of you as a simi-knowledgable person and have said that to other members. But now from your childish remark I think you are a ******* Dick head. Don't like that oh-well, grow up and get over it.
Herb
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ssinstaller
Member
- :
- 2006 MazdaSpeed 6
Why do so many threads that could turn into worthwhile disscussion have to devolve into 4th grade name calling.
I'm not going to agree or disagree with either of you, I will however state my "OPINION".
I would like to point out that a larger tb does not increase the responce speed of the throttle plate regardless of wether the tb is cable driven or electronically controlled. The larger throttle body simply allows more airflow for a givin throttle input.--there are some exceptions where larger tb's a re designed with larger throttle rotors.
Changing the size of the throttle body can not effect the responce of the motor controling the throttle plate, but, because no one knows how the pcm converts our pedal input into the actual throttle values, I don't see how anyone could make an educated decision about what is causing the delay(wether it is a delay in the pcm/tb motor or simply not enough available airflow). I don't notice much more delay than I had in my previous car.
Regardless of the cause of the delay, the larger throttle body can still increase the percieved responce of the engine. The larger area of the oversized throttle body will allow more airflow for a given throttle input. A 5% throttle opening on the stock tb will flow much less air than a 5% opening on a tb that is 10mm bigger.
Until someone actually puts an oversized tb on their mazda3 there really is now way to tell if it will improve the throttle responce. Even then i bet that person will get nothing but s*** if post up their results(read-OPINION).
-Chris
I'm not going to agree or disagree with either of you, I will however state my "OPINION".
When something is electronically controlled, how does changing the size of said item effect the response of the electrical equipment attached to it? This is an electronically driven throttlebody, and what works/changes/effects a cable based system, does NOT have the same effect on this one.
I would like to point out that a larger tb does not increase the responce speed of the throttle plate regardless of wether the tb is cable driven or electronically controlled. The larger throttle body simply allows more airflow for a givin throttle input.--there are some exceptions where larger tb's a re designed with larger throttle rotors.
Changing the size of the throttle body can not effect the responce of the motor controling the throttle plate, but, because no one knows how the pcm converts our pedal input into the actual throttle values, I don't see how anyone could make an educated decision about what is causing the delay(wether it is a delay in the pcm/tb motor or simply not enough available airflow). I don't notice much more delay than I had in my previous car.
Regardless of the cause of the delay, the larger throttle body can still increase the percieved responce of the engine. The larger area of the oversized throttle body will allow more airflow for a given throttle input. A 5% throttle opening on the stock tb will flow much less air than a 5% opening on a tb that is 10mm bigger.
Until someone actually puts an oversized tb on their mazda3 there really is now way to tell if it will improve the throttle responce. Even then i bet that person will get nothing but s*** if post up their results(read-OPINION).
-Chris
we already beat this to death on 6 tech...when the gas pedal isn't being utilized the tb is closed(Not 100%) and the delay from when you stomp on it to the point the plate actuly starts to move cannot be changed by swapping out TB's. once you have the TB opening then you may notice gains but my way to cut down on the lag time when aunching is feathering the TB below 1000 till I get the que to launch.
If you 2 don't stop fighting I swear to god I will pull this van over :mad:!
If you 2 don't stop fighting I swear to god I will pull this van over :mad:!
ssinstaller
Member
- :
- 2006 MazdaSpeed 6
Da 6 said:we already beat this to death on 6 tech...!
I am very tired of hearing this. I'm glad the you would like to post on the mazda 3 forums, appreciate any advice you may have for mazda 3 owners like myself. But do not tells us someting has been discussed and decided on your forum.
Just beacuse your car has been around a little longer and you guy's have been trying to mod a little longer, that doesn't mean I have to accept everything your forum has decided as wisdom from above.
If you would post links to your refercences from the higher beings, I or some of our other members, will gladly read them--and perhaps; just perhaps there may be someone who many be able to contribute something to the infinte wisdom at the mazda 6 tech forums.
--but thank you for your advice on launching, I have to hold the throttle a little higher because of the extra grip from my larger tires, but with that technique I can launch with almost no lag
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I'd have to find those links but yeah what we are refering to is not the flow of air into the tb but the time it takes the tb plate to open from idle position. The electronic TB lag is what I was refering to as being ran into the ground. My car has been around longer but I bet you put way more miles on yours than I did on mine.
Build date 3 03 mileage 6420 (lol2)
Build date 3 03 mileage 6420 (lol2)
goldwing2000
Turd in the punch bowl
- :
- 2004 Mazda3s Hatch; 269,000 miles
ssinstaller said:Why do so many threads that could turn into worthwhile disscussion have to devolve into 4th grade name calling.
Agreed. knock off the name calling or the thread will be closed.
FWIW, you two (crossbow and AzMz3) are talking about two completely different things.
One of you is talking about the electrical delay between when you hit the gas and when the throttle plate opens.
The other is talking about the pneumatic delay between when the throttle is open and the RPMs begin to rise.
Two different issues.
Now play nice.
ssinstaller
Member
- :
- 2006 MazdaSpeed 6
Da 6 said:I'd have to find those links but yeah what we are refering to is not the flow of air into the tb but the time it takes the tb plate to open from idle position. The electronic TB lag is what I was refering to as being ran into the ground. My car has been around longer but I bet you put way more miles on yours than I did on mine.
Build date 3 03 mileage 6420 (lol2)
Thanks for posting a constructive reply.
I totally agree that the oversized tb can not change the initial delay caused by the motor that controls the throttle plate, but that is not the only thing that influences what we feel as throttle responce. While the greater airflow (probably) wont effect the initial responce, low throttle and part throttle responce would probably be increased.
My mazda 3 has 4758 miles today.
--Chris
goldwing2000 said:Agreed. knock off the name calling or the thread will be closed.
FWIW, you two (crossbow and AzMz3) are talking about two completely different things.
One of you is talking about the electrical delay between when you hit the gas and when the throttle plate opens.
The other is talking about the pneumatic delay between when the throttle is open and the RPMs begin to rise.
Two different issues.
Now play nice.
I do appologize(sp) for also beening childish.
The delay you guys are talking about I believe is called throttle tip-in and is controlled by the ECU. Once a ECU flasher is out that will cure that.
I have had a 65mm TB on my previous, even ported out the stock TB and they both improved throttle response. The 65mm was far better to me though.
No does a larger throttle body make some how make the butterfly open sooner when you press the gas....NO
It does allow more air in which does improve throttle response. Hell we might even gain a few HP with it. But from my experience this is one of the more noticeable mods, you will instantly feel it all through out the powerband.
Hearing 6tech all the time is really getting old, lets just hash it out here!
Again I appologize(sp)
Herb
I accept apology and I will stop bringing up other forums. reason I said it was beaten to death is there were all out battle royals to the point members actuly left the forum after it. just don't want it to happen here. now that we are done with the debate...lets get back to the original intent of the thread and email the company to see if they actuly built an electronic TB yet. not shure about you guys but anything to make my ATX go a lil faster is much neded(2thumbs)
