Synthetic oil debate

[peter.sellers]

I know this topic has been beaten to death but here is my experience.

I went to the dealer a few days back and asked them if I can use synthetic oil during the next oil change. The guy said it was ok to use syn. and that the dealership will do the oil change to syn. if I bring it in.

Just for s**** and giggles, I sent an email to Mazda USA asking them about using syn. and here is their response:

'Thanks for contacting Mazda. We appreciate the opportunity to address your inquiry.

Unfortunately, synthetic oil is not recommended by Mazda. You should use SAE 5W 30 in your Mazdaspeed3. Going outside of the recommended specifications can void your warranty if related concerns arise.'

I'm confused!!??

 

[rahne]

i'm also curious about any cons to synthetic oil. a friend once told me once you start using it, you can't go back to non-synthetic. is that the case? if not, is there any downside to using synthetic?

 

[FMOS Racing]

I personally wouldn't consider using conventional oil in a turbocharged vehicle, no matter what Mazda USA says.

There are no compatibility issues between conventional and synthetic oils, so in that respect you can change back and forth as much as you want. One of the only issues I'm aware of is that in older vehicles the higher detergent content of synthetics can clean old, coked oil off the seals and cause leaks.

 

[coyfish]

Do a search about synthetic oil. A big thread is on the forum about using synthetic. Basically it says synthetic is better for the speed 3 and 6. Only con is that its obviosly more expensive.

 

[mgerst1]

ive been using syn. on my msp and i dont see any cons, a bit more expensive but less deposits to get left behind in the engine. reccomended by my mechanic the first time i took my msp to him because of the turbo

 

[rahne]

I personally wouldn't consider using conventional oil in a turbocharged vehicle, no matter what Mazda USA says.

There are no compatibility issues between conventional and synthetic oils, so in that respect you can change back and forth as much as you want. One of the only issues I'm aware of is that in older vehicles the higher detergent content of synthetics can clean old, coked oil off the seals and cause leaks.

my mp3 doesn't have a turbo, and it is older (i have 110K on it - i wish it wasn't my only car for 4 years while i commuted 60 miles one way to work(sad2)) however, i have used synthetic since i bought it new and i change oil every 3K. should i be concerned about getting a leak in that case? i don't plan on getting a turbo - i prefer a supercharger, but i've yet to find anybody that makes one...

 

[FMOS Racing]

No, I wouldn't worry about it. I mean, older vehicles become prone to leak as the seals wear out, kinda like people! I don't think that a synthetic makes that any worse. Probably helps if it's been used since new.

 

[builthatch]

I know this topic has been beaten to death but here is my experience.

I went to the dealer a few days back and asked them if I can use synthetic oil during the next oil change. The guy said it was ok to use syn. and that the dealership will do the oil change to syn. if I bring it in.

Just for s**** and giggles, I sent an email to Mazda USA asking them about using syn. and here is their response:

'Thanks for contacting Mazda. We appreciate the opportunity to address your inquiry.

Unfortunately, synthetic oil is not recommended by Mazda. You should use SAE 5W 30 in your Mazdaspeed3. Going outside of the recommended specifications can void your warranty if related concerns arise.'

I'm confused!!??

synth oil isn't going to hurt anything. man i wonder how many times on how many forums this has been covered hehe.

re: their response, the only thing i can think of is that they are experiencing more grenaded ms3 vs. their other cars (due to abuse, aggressive use as a high strung turbo 2.3 and/or modifications) and want to cover themselves a bit incase you just happen to grenade yours. it gives you one less piece of recourse, which is just fine because you'd probably not even bring up what kind of oil you used since it's of no concern to anyone. just run it and enjoy the extended change intervals. if you are worried about dilution or other issues, simply get an oil analysis.

 

[Kain]

... it gives you one less piece of recourse...

Bingo. With auto manus tightening their belts, they're looking for any excuse to not honor warranty work.

 

[DAC17]

There is no way that conventional dino juice is better for our engines than synthetic. Synthetic shears less, has a lower pour point, generally better additive packages, etc. Whoever from Mazda wrote that e-mail is clueless. "5W30" has nothing whatsoever to do with dino v. syn.

 

[builthatch]

"5W30" has nothing whatsoever to do with dino v. syn.

i thought the same thing when i saw that...but then again they did atleast discount synthetic in the part right before that so i didn't expand on it...but yeah, i thought the same s***.

so it's like, ok, so he can use 5w30 synth and be ok lol

 

[CrazyT]

Mazda always has and probably always will say no to synthetics. Don't know why. My '86 Rx-7 even said in the owners manual to use conventional (the general theory behind this is that rotaries purposely burn oil, leaving less ash than synthetic). I'm sure it's a "dino juice works, let's not F%$@ anything" mentality. I'm sure if you asked them "I got an MPV, can I use sythetic", they'd give you the same response.

Put in some Mobil 1 (if you can find it) and be happy.

 

[JingChuan]

My local dealer has a $19.95 coupon for oil change. Right on the coupon it says, "Synthetic Oil Extra." Seems kinda funny they would mention that if it was prohibited!

 

[Kain]

My local dealer has a $19.95 coupon for oil change. Right on the coupon it says, "Synthetic Oil Extra." Seems kinda funny they would mention that if it was prohibited!

That's because corporate types wouldn't know an axle from their asshole.

 

[JingChuan]

That's because corporate types wouldn't know an axle from their asshole.

The service writer type I spoke with at that dealer confirmed synthetic or semi-synthetic or standard petroleum base oils are acceptable and would not void the warranty. They would provide the flavor of my choice, in 5w-30 style.

I didn't inquire as to his familiarity of drivetrain parts vs. lower gastrointestinal parts, however.

 

[peter.sellers]

The service writer type I spoke with at that dealer confirmed synthetic or semi-synthetic or standard petroleum base oils are acceptable and would not void the warranty. They would provide the flavor of my choice, in 5w-30 style.

I didn't inquire as to his familiarity of drivetrain parts vs. lower gastrointestinal parts, however.

Now see, that's much more clear. I am going to ask my dealer the same thing and see what he says. It seems like it only has to be 5W30 as per the manual too; Dino or syn. is not specified.

 

[robin2660]

There is no way that conventional dino juice is better for our engines than synthetic. Synthetic shears less, has a lower pour point, generally better additive packages, etc. Whoever from Mazda wrote that e-mail is clueless. "5W30" has nothing whatsoever to do with dino v. syn.

The only problem I have is that I have yet to see conclusive evidence that synthetic oils lead to less wear and tear on the engine than dino oils, provided an appropriate service schedule is followed.

 

[Rizzant]

Taken from Blackstone FAQ

The only problem I have is that I have yet to see conclusive evidence that synthetic oils lead to less wear and tear on the engine than dino oils, provided an appropriate service schedule is followed.

Since alot of people site UOAs for their reason for using synthetic, why not see what the Oil Analysis Labs think. Nobody sees more UOAs than they do.
This is from Blackstone Labs FAQ
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/faq_gas.html
"
What's the best oil to use?

Ah, the million dollar question. We are an independent lab, so we don't make recommendations. It has been our experience that oil is oil, and either petroleum or synthetic-based oil will work well for just about any engine.

Come on, you're holding out on me. I should use synthetic, right?

Buddy, you should use whatever you want. Synthetic oil won't guarantee a longer engine life any more than my eating organic food will guarantee I'll live until I'm 90. We here at Blackstone generally use regular petroleum-based oil because honestly, it works just as well for us."

Obviously they recommend using their service though and seeing for yourself.
They gotta get paid. They also don't all drive turbos. That being said, if oil analysis was your job you would probably splurge a little and get synthetic if you saw a reason to.

 

[robin2660]

Since alot of people site UOAs for their reason for using synthetic, why not see what the Oil Analysis Labs think. Nobody sees more UOAs than they do.
This is from Blackstone Labs FAQ
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/faq_gas.html
"
What's the best oil to use?

Ah, the million dollar question. We are an independent lab, so we don't make recommendations. It has been our experience that oil is oil, and either petroleum or synthetic-based oil will work well for just about any engine.

Come on, you're holding out on me. I should use synthetic, right?

Buddy, you should use whatever you want. Synthetic oil won't guarantee a longer engine life any more than my eating organic food will guarantee I'll live until I'm 90. We here at Blackstone generally use regular petroleum-based oil because honestly, it works just as well for us."

Obviously they recommend using their service though and seeing for yourself.
They gotta get paid. They also don't all drive turbos. That being said, if oil analysis was your job you would probably splurge a little and get synthetic if you saw a reason to.

Stock synthetic oil fan quote: "They don't know about engines. All they know about is oil analysis"

 

[FMOS Racing]

Synthetic oil is more resistant to extreme conditions, especially heat.

I used to work in the lubrication division of Allied Signal. One of the engineers once told me that 99.9% of the time (I'm certain that was a rhetorical use of the percentage), synthetic oil was no better than conventional oil. That other 0.1% of the time, it'll save your engine. It's under the extreme conditions in terms of heat and pressure, and under failure conditions like coolant in the crankcase, that synthetics shine.

I'd agree that it's absolutely a waste of money in mom-and-pop daily drivers. In a hard-driven turbocharged vehicle, I wouldn't consider saving a few a bucks and not using it. Same with a filter. It's really not an appreciable expense when you consider that the cost of an oil change is really no more than the cost of a fill-up.