Road Salt

Don't turn it on until it's under the car.
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Great idea! Because vertical streams of water will not reach all areas under the car, I would suggest a small modification:

Drill the jets on the left to shoot right and the jets on the right to shoot left (and slightly forward so they don't collide with one another.
 
Whether the de-icer is sodium chloride, magnesium chloride or calcium chloride, you do not want a basic solution to wash it away, you want a mild acid! A basic solution can react with the chloride ions and make them less soluble and much more difficult to wash away.

Well yea, adding a basic material to sodium chloride will make it more "hard (water)", but what's better? Cleaning a little harmless scale off your control arm (if it even becomes an issue) or repairing rust in an area caused by water that couldn't drain enough, messing around with seized bolts, nuts etc... Also sodium bicarbonate is very soft and any formation on the chassis would probably break off from vibration before it ever got a chance to build up (we aren't talking hardwater in your home piping here and I live in a hardwater area and we use a water softner). It would be no different than getting mud stuck on your car deposit wise.
 
Well yea, adding a basic material to sodium chloride will make it more "hard (water)", but what's better? Cleaning a little harmless scale off your control arm (if it even becomes an issue) or repairing rust in an area caused by water that couldn't drain enough, messing around with seized bolts, nuts etc... Also sodium bicarbonate is very soft and any formation on the chassis would probably break off from vibration before it ever got a chance to build up (we aren't talking hardwater in your home piping here and I live in a hardwater area and we use a water softner). It would be no different than getting mud stuck on your car deposit wise.

Are you skilled in the science of chemistry?
 
Are you skilled in the science of chemistry?
no I am not, but I'd rather have scale which is unlikely to form from adding a bit of baking soda to a soap dispenser than a salt solution eating at my undercarriage; if I was concerned water wasn't hitting certain areas. Actually the idea that deposits from such a solution would even build up (and then be harmful) is pretty far fetched...
 
That homemade under car washer is brilliant and really simple to make. Thanks for the idea! I usually use a long necked sprayer and get in every nook and cranny I can on my vehicles in spring but they aren't exactly aimed the best way to get everything, plus you have to hold it with you hand which can get really uncomfortable.

Also good to know that the covers aren't too hard to remove. Just sounds a little time consuming but better than the alternative.
 
Good show. I've also seen where a garden hose is laid out in an "S" formation with a bunch of holes punched into it and all you do is drive over it a few times with the water turned on high, same idea.
 
no I am not, but I'd rather have scale which is unlikely to form from adding a bit of baking soda to a soap dispenser than a salt solution eating at my undercarriage; if I was concerned water wasn't hitting certain areas. Actually the idea that deposits from such a solution would even build up (and then be harmful) is pretty far fetched...

Well I'm not particularly skilled in chemistry either (beyond two college level courses). The reason I asked whether you were skilled in chemistry is because the various reactions involved with road salts, automotive metals, water and oxygen are many and varied. Corrosion chemistry is very complex even before taking into account the many other contaminants found in road spray that can accelerate this corrosion. I'm concerned that not only will baking soda and water not "neutralize" the road salts deposited on our CX-5's, it could actually increase the rate of corrosion while simultaneously making the salts more difficult to remove.

Baking soda mixed with water is an alkaline substance. A number of commercial products designed to neutralize road salts on road vehicles are available. The MSDS's of these effective products all report a low pH that is acidic (not high pH or alkaline like baking soda). None of these products even contain baking soda regardless of how cheap bicarbonate of soda is.

There are two strategies for reducing corrosion of vehicles which are used on roads that have been treated with de-icers:

1) Protective oils, waxes and other coatings applied before exposure to the salts.
2) Frequent washing with solutions that can remove and/or neutralize the salts after they have been deposited on the vehicle.

Most scientific literature attempts to assess the effectiveness of products in both categories but the subject is so complex I'm going to limit my comments to products in the second category. The most comprehensive study I found was commissioned by the Ohio DOT and completed in Feb. 2014:

http://www.dot.state.oh.us/Division...andplans/Reports/2014/Materials/134718_FR.pdf

A few interesting excerpts:

2.4. Commercially Available Salt Neutralizing Products
Currently there are several commercially available salt neutralizing products. Salt neutralizers act by solubilizing hard scales that can cause corrosion of a metal surface and are typically composed of either sulfamic or hydrochloric acid. Sulfamic acid is the monoamide of sulfuric acid and acts as a strong acid in aqueous solution; however, the corrosivity of sulfamic acid is considerably lower than other strong acids (Malik, 2011). Another key advantage of sulfamic acid is that it can be used to clean metal surfaces without causing chloride induced stress corrosion cracking (SCC).

Commercially available salt neutralizers
BioKleen Proprietary
ConSALT Hydrochloric Acid
Eastwood Sulfamic Acid
Neutro-wash Sulfamic Acid
Salt Away Sulfamic Acid
Winter Rinse Sulfamic Acid


Then there is this article from a mass transit industry rag:

http://www.masstransitmag.com/article/10454360/protecting-your-vehicles-from-corrosion


The industry is using a multi-faceted approach to combat transit vehicle corrosion related to winter deicers. One of the most effective ways to prevent this corrosion is to use a new three-step cleaning process in your transit washes. The first is the replacement of neutral and alkaline exterior detergents that have little or no effect on salt neutralization and removal, with a low pH detergent designed to neutralize and remove salt. The second is the application of this product concept in the interior bus cleaning. The third and most critical is the process design of an underbody wash system that should include an initial high-pressure water flush to break up compacted soil deposits, followed by the low pH detergent “neutralizer” wash. Adopting this three-step approach is a simple, economical solution that can easily be integrated into existing vehicle wash practices. Using the products with the right chemistry and thoroughly cleaning transit vehicles can lower the maintenance costs associated with road deicer corrosion and extend the useful life of a transit vehicle. MT

Do you really think the scientists that work for companies that market salt neutralizing products didn't know about cheap and readily available sodium bicarbonate? My rudimentary chemical knowledge leads me to believe it will make the problem worse, not better. Besides, solutions of sodium bicarbonate strip the protective layer of oxidation from aluminum wheels and components.

One thing I learned while researching how to best protect my CX-5 from corrosion is that although salts are water soluble, the dried residues do not rinse away as readily as one might assume when using plain water. I recommend a soap with a pH below 7 applied with as much pressure as practical followed by a rinsing of clear water. Cold water will reduce the effectiveness of any cleaning. Unfortunately, most wand style car washes (including no-contact drive through washes) use soap that is somewhat alkaline because that's what works best to remove normal road grime. While anything that makes suds will be more effective than plain water at rinsing off dried salt residues, it will not neutralize the salts, only assist in their removal. Acids neutralize salts but are corrosive themselves. Either way, rinse well.
 
MikeM--do you know of any soaps/detergents that have a low PH that you can buy in something other than a 5 gallon container??
 
MikeM--do you know of any soaps/detergents that have a low PH that you can buy in something other than a 5 gallon container??

Interesting -- ValuGard's ProGard is a wash designed specifically to remove Mag Chloride and salt--I just noticed it is alkaline rather than acidic. It only comes in 5 gallon or 55 gallon containers though.

PROGARD - Magnesium Chloride Remover
Trailer, Chassis & Truck Wash – VG-502
Features: An alkaline cleaner liquid concentrate for cleaning vehicles of all types. The blend of
detergents penetrates and disperses road and salt film and after rinsing leaves the surface charged to repel
dirt and soil. Low foam for better penetration into seams where Magnesium Chloride is difficult to remove.
Benefits: Cleans Magnesium Chloride residue from all surfaces. Will help brighten aluminum surfaces
without etching and also works well to remove bugs, tar, and asphalt. Designed to be applied by brush,
moderate or high pressure spray, and can also be used in steam cleaning applications. Completely
Biodegradable.
Uses: For removing road grime, salts and Magnesium Chloride residue from all transportation vehicles,
Trucks, Trailers, Chassis, Vans, and Buses
 
MikeM--do you know of any soaps/detergents that have a low PH that you can buy in something other than a 5 gallon container??

No, to date my de-icer cleaning has consisted of finding deep, freshwater puddles to drive through at about 55 mph! This works well here in the PNW where de-icer usage is almost exclusive to the mountains and plenty of rural, low land roads have large puddles in the winter that are relatively uncontaminated. I would not use this method in most areas of the country.

Interesting -- ValuGard's ProGard is a wash designed specifically to remove Mag Chloride and salt--I just noticed it is alkaline rather than acidic. It only comes in 5 gallon or 55 gallon containers though.


Please note that the discussion was about neutralizing salts and this product does not claim to neutralize them, only assist in their removal! The products listed above in the Ohio study all claimed to help neutralize salts. Any soap that reduces the surface tension of water will help remove salts. Combined with high enough pressure and adequate coverage, this is probably all you need (although some warmth to the pressure spray would add considerable effectiveness). Again, a thorough rinsing is important!

Given a choice, I would still try to use a soap that had a pH below 7 to avoid the possibility that a high pH soap could cause some of the salt to attach more firmly to the metal and become resistant to removal. Also, the "brightening" of aluminum surfaces mentioned with the alkaline soap is nothing more than removal of the oxide layer that protects aluminum from more serious corrosion. That's the last thing you want if you will be driving on roads treated with de-icers.
 
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I used to do this up north and did it to my "16" the day I brought it home even though I now live in S.Florida This is not a complete solution to road salt and deicers but woks great,especially if you like working on you own vehicles. What I do is completely cover the mounting hardware with a good quality silicone, I cover the nut,bolt head and threaded portion of steering and suspension components, the starter and alternator I have even had great success in using hi-temp silicone on exhaust components, In my experience this method has kept the hardware in as new condition and has evened lessened or prevented galvanic corrosion. Also if any of you own a boat and have used "sharkhide'' metal protectant you know how well that works in a "salty" environment...As I mentioned my method and experience is not a cure all but it has worked for me with my boats and on and off road vehicles. And I just wanted to Share it with you all
 
The bottom of the CX-5 is pretty well covered up under the motor and most of the side portions of the underbody length. I've been considering covering/shielding the center section where the driveshaft/exhaust pipe are to protect that area from salt and maybe help with the aero a little more.

Have you guys considered plasti-diping the exposed under body of the cx-5 ? It would probably help protect from the salt and you can easily remove it when ever you want to.
 
The bottom of the CX-5 is pretty well covered up under the motor and most of the side portions of the underbody length. I've been considering covering/shielding the center section where the driveshaft/exhaust pipe are to protect that area from salt and maybe help with the aero a little more.

Have you guys considered plasti-diping the exposed under body of the cx-5 ? It would probably help protect from the salt and you can easily remove it when ever you want to.


Plasti-dip is very soft and road stones will break the membrane. Then the salt water will wick behind it and cause corrosion. Not recommended.
 
I've read the worst possible thing you can do is keep your car in a warm garage after driving over salted roads. If kept in the cold, corrosion is very slow. If kept in warm garage, corrosion will eat your car alive.

Bingo!
 
If you think about it, how many 10 year old, or so, rusty cars do you see, even up in the snow belt area. Today's metals, along with modern car construction makes for a very corrosion resistant car. Now you do see outside rust from chips, and such, but that is mainly due to neglect on the owners part.
 
If you think about it, how many 10 year old, or so, rusty cars do you see, even up in the snow belt area. Today's metals, along with modern car construction makes for a very corrosion resistant car. Now you do see outside rust from chips, and such, but that is mainly due to neglect on the owners part.

Not as many in Massachusetts as I've seen in North Carolina. The frame on my 2001 Tunda was gone after 10 years to the point where I could poke my finger through it in some spots. The 5 months of copious amounts of road salt here pretty much means the undercarriage of most vehicles will experience excelerated corrosion even if they look good on the outside. It's usually what most drivers don't see under the car that gets the worst of it, including brakes.
 
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