MPINick stage1 turbo upgrade
- Thread starter sweetlou69
- Start date
Most of that conversation wasn't even talking about the difference between the 25R and 28RS... furthermore, the dude that is claiming that the 25R is so much better than the 28RS has no actual proof at all other than written dyno numbers with no details about the runs, and not even sheets to show these numbers. If the same car made runs with the S-15 turbo, the 25R, and the 28RS... all on the same dyno... AND the guy posted actual graphs showing those same results, THEN I would maybe take whan he is saying a little more seriously. As it stands now, I still don't see how putting 28RS internals in a smaller turbo is going to show these results. There is absolutely ZERO technical proof in these findings .
Don't know I'm not a science guy... only thing is even when we have dyno sheets that doesn't mean anything becuase we all know dyno numbers can be massage to show different results... I guess it will boil down to a annual shootout I have been wanting to have exactly in between DFW and Cali...
have everyone bring their cars and do their best at beating each other in safe races then have dyno where every side can have their own watching closely to ensure no mofo cheats....
cheats will be delt with the same way my friends delt with the guy they took off in a van (thumb)
have everyone bring their cars and do their best at beating each other in safe races then have dyno where every side can have their own watching closely to ensure no mofo cheats....
cheats will be delt with the same way my friends delt with the guy they took off in a van (thumb)
505zoom said:
505zoom said:
yup.
there are a few things wrong with this anywho.
take a look at a disco,and a T25 the difference is huge.
you can cleary see the disco will move more air then the T25.
what your saying is that you can push more air through a 1/2" dia tube then a 2" dia tube.
simply not true.
I will say,if your stock turbo takes a s***,then it's more logical to get Nicks upgrade then to get a disco,but if you want a upgrade,and your stocker is still good,then your better off selling it,and useing the money that would have been for the stage one,and get a disco.
think about it,you take a two turbos same size wheel,and use a larger comp housing on one than the other.the one with the laarger comp housing will flow more then the smaller one.
why do you think we have a T3/T04E?because the T04 flows to much and can't spool on a small engine,and a T3 can't flow enough.
put the comp MAPs together and look at them,you will see witch one is better for what.
one better,brianMP5T has already mad a comp MAP graphed out for the GT28RS on our car,take a look at it.
apocman said:
You don't have to be a science guy to understand that this makes no sense. I am not saying that a 25R can not be modified to be better than a 28RS, but simply porting it and then throwing in the 28RS internals is not going to make it outflow the 28RS by as much as this guy is claiming.
S-15 Ball bearing T-28 - 240 ft-lbs
Disco Potato - 185 ft-lbs
GT25R w/ .86 A/R - 165 ft-lbs
Ok that's all fine and dandy.
top end performance.
s15 turbo 299 HP @ 6000
Disco 278 HP @ 6100
GT25R 360 HP @ 6500
Now this is where I have a problem. The 25R has a compressor inlet that is almost a full inch smaller in diameter than the 28RS... that's almost a 33% difference. The 25R also has a smaller compressor housing even though this guy says that they are the same. Those 2 facts put together make it impossible for the 25R to outflow the 28RS by almost 30% like he says it can.
Now again... if these guys are talking about a 25R that has been modified differently than Nicks, then I retract my statements. If it is what you are saying though, and this guy is claiming that you can throw the internals of a 28RS into a 25R and get these results, then all I can say is :bs:
I guess teh way to do this is to have 2 cars with very similar mods, and then using the same psi, what the dyno numbers will be.
My prediction, the upgraded turbo will put out power quicker, but in the top end might make less power, but not off by too much. I dont know, but we need to follow the talk the talk, walk the walk rule.
My prediction, the upgraded turbo will put out power quicker, but in the top end might make less power, but not off by too much. I dont know, but we need to follow the talk the talk, walk the walk rule.
Moeed said:
Agreed... I would love to have a friendly dyno war between you and me, lol... my old reborn vs my new.
That wouldn't settle this debate though... we would both need to max out our turbos to know for sure which one can flow more up top. Neither one of us can safely do that. Perhaps Apoc would be willing to max his out on his new motor, and then we could swap my intake and turbo on there and go back the next day. I am planning to come out there around march or april, so maybe we could get something like that going.this is going to go nowere,there is no way to prove s***,even if it's putting one turbo one,then swapping.
it's the turbo itself that needs to be tested,PSI vs. CFM.
and this can be seen on a comp MAP,witch has been seen,and displayed on this forum many times.
the disco is for a 300 to 350 HP range on our cars.
the stage 1 25R is for sub 300HP.
you want to go higher,cool,you need to skip the 2871,and head for the GT30 because the GT2871 simply has to large of a exahust,and with out enlarging the comp wheel,it can't spool well(better suited for 2.5-3.0 L engines)
it's the turbo itself that needs to be tested,PSI vs. CFM.
and this can be seen on a comp MAP,witch has been seen,and displayed on this forum many times.
the disco is for a 300 to 350 HP range on our cars.
the stage 1 25R is for sub 300HP.
you want to go higher,cool,you need to skip the 2871,and head for the GT30 because the GT2871 simply has to large of a exahust,and with out enlarging the comp wheel,it can't spool well(better suited for 2.5-3.0 L engines)
- :
- Hemi Ram, 71 Plymth Scamp, 71 Plymth Duster 340, 69 Dart 340/4sp
wicked said:
Umm.. I know of at least 2 400hp Protege's running the stock callaway manifold with Nicks stage1 turbo. I don't know of any stock Gt28rs's even close....maybe I'm missing someone? Focus has a modified Gt28rs and from what I heard from his 1/4 mph is making stupid hp at this point.
Though I will agree a stock Gt28rs SHOULD outpower a Stage1... on paper anyways.
One problem with the info Rich, Apocman posted, the GT25R sold by Garret is not the same as the stock Mazdaspeed Protege turbo. The compressor housing on the MSP turbo is smaller than any GT25R you can buy through Garret. Therefore its not really applicable to the debate regarding upgrading the MSP turbo. You're not starting with the same turbo they are discussing. Rich, 505, is on the right tract noting the compressor inlet and housing differences.
I'm going to have to agree with BlkZZ though, the MPI stage 1 turbo is putting out more hp than I've seen a 28RS make. Lets all ponder why that could be... I am...
I'm going to have to agree with BlkZZ though, the MPI stage 1 turbo is putting out more hp than I've seen a 28RS make. Lets all ponder why that could be... I am...
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these are both good upgrades for the MSP
BLKZOOMZOOM,first,I recived the package today,
second,
you are seeing more 400hp stage 1s because those cars intended to make that power,I have not seen a fs-de with a disco try for that kind of power yet,it's a matter of time till we do.
I will have mine up there next year,but for now it's going to stay were it's at,I have to finish building this head,and take care of a few trans things.
BLKZOOMZOOM,first,I recived the package today,
second,
you are seeing more 400hp stage 1s because those cars intended to make that power,I have not seen a fs-de with a disco try for that kind of power yet,it's a matter of time till we do.
I will have mine up there next year,but for now it's going to stay were it's at,I have to finish building this head,and take care of a few trans things.
