Mazda2 automatic transmission fluid question

[DrWebster]

Hey all,

Just had the ATF in one of our 2's flushed by the dealer. The car's at 30k, and knowing how Mazda automatic transmissions tend to be hard on fluid, it was due. The owner's manual specifies that Mazda ATF M-V (Type M5) fluid should be used, and some research on my part has taught me that it's a similar, but not identical, fluid to Mercon V.

After getting the flush done and looking at the paperwork when I got home, lo and behold it looks like the dealer used Mercon V fluid instead of M-V. They list part number 0000-77-120E-05, which has a description of "MERCON V ATF". But, right below it, is another line item for part number VP094 with description "TRANS 2-PART". I have no idea what this other item is, and can't find any info on it anywhere. I suspect it may be some sort of fluid additive (maybe to bring it to M-V fluid specs?) but have no way to be sure.

Anyone have any ideas?

 

[DrWebster]

Well, my hunch was right -- I called the parts department this morning and asked what VP094 was, and the guy was a little dodgy but admitted that it was "a transmission fluid additive." So the dealer is a bunch of dirty cheaters, they just stock Mercon V and dump some additive in to try to get it to Mazda M-V specs. I feel a little better knowing that they just didn't dump straight Mercon in the car, but I'm not completely sold on additives either. I'll probably get the fluid flushed again sooner than I planned (say, in about 15k) but it definitely won't be at that dealer again.

 

[AN7]

Send an e-mail to mmazda US about this dealer

 

[utmorpheus]

Send an e-mail to mmazda US about this dealer

I second this. Either MazdaUSA will tell you that it's perfectly safe, or the dealer will be audited. Either way you get peace of mind, and worst case the dealer has to start fixing things correctly.

 

[DrWebster]

Well, I called the dealer to explain the situation and see if they wanted to fix it...got the run-around big time. The service writer kept changing his story, even after putting me on hold to talk to the parts department. Called Mazda corporate after that and the lady I spoke with was very nice, and will look into it and get back to me.

 

[upthemiddle]

Just out of curiosity, having worked the dealership realm, did Mazda corporate ever get back to you?

 

[DrWebster]

Yes, corporate called the next day, and basically deferred me to the dealer. They basically said that since the dealer I went to was a pretty big one (which it is, in terms of sales and service volume), they should know what they're doing and I should just trust them. Wasn't very satisfied with that answer; basically sounded like Mazda didn't want to rock the boat with them.

Interestingly enough, about a week later I got one of those automated surveys from Mazda regarding my dealer experience. Suffice to say, they did not get very good marks and a couple of days later the service manager left me a voicemail where he was all like, "Your review really hurt, we'd like to make it right." I wanted to call back and tell him I wanted the flush done again with the correct fluid, but decided I'd rather just never let them touch my cars again.

I also asked corporate why they don't list any sort of maintenance schedule for the transmission in the owner's manual, and they replied that fluid change intervals will vary based on where you live and how you drive the car, and that the dealer should be alerting owners when a fluid change is due when they bring their cars in for regular maintenance. While I agree that the change interval will vary, there are a lot of people who are unwilling to pay the $350+ "regular maintenance" every 15k where all the dealer does is rotate your tires and change the air filter.

I haven't decided what I'm going to do going forward when it comes to ATF changes. I'm thinking I'll either just buy the right fluid and take the car to a highly-reviewed independent shop, or take the car to another dealer but have a very involved conversation with the service writer about exactly what my expectations are...including showing me the empty containers of new fluid that they put in.

 

[utmorpheus]

Yes, corporate called the next day, and basically deferred me to the dealer. They basically said that since the dealer I went to was a pretty big one (which it is, in terms of sales and service volume), they should know what they're doing and I should just trust them. Wasn't very satisfied with that answer; basically sounded like Mazda didn't want to rock the boat with them.

Interestingly enough, about a week later I got one of those automated surveys from Mazda regarding my dealer experience. Suffice to say, they did not get very good marks and a couple of days later the service manager left me a voicemail where he was all like, "Your review really hurt, we'd like to make it right." I wanted to call back and tell him I wanted the flush done again with the correct fluid, but decided I'd rather just never let them touch my cars again.

I also asked corporate why they don't list any sort of maintenance schedule for the transmission in the owner's manual, and they replied that fluid change intervals will vary based on where you live and how you drive the car, and that the dealer should be alerting owners when a fluid change is due when they bring their cars in for regular maintenance. While I agree that the change interval will vary, there are a lot of people who are unwilling to pay the $350+ "regular maintenance" every 15k where all the dealer does is rotate your tires and change the air filter.

I haven't decided what I'm going to do going forward when it comes to ATF changes. I'm thinking I'll either just buy the right fluid and take the car to a highly-reviewed independent shop, or take the car to another dealer but have a very involved conversation with the service writer about exactly what my expectations are...including showing me the empty containers of new fluid that they put in.

If you want it done right, do it yourself. Especially with the simple stuff like ATF changes and other 'routine maintenance' items. Honestly, I would go around to the private garages until you find one you trust.

 

[upthemiddle]

Having run several service departments at dealerships, I know the service manager is supposed to get back to the manufacturer, at least with the case of Honda, Chrysler and Jag, on any complaints that have escalated to the corporate level by the customer. Usually the manufacturer will allow the dealer to resolve the issue but I'm surprised Mazda didn't follow up with you to make sure you were satisfied with the dealer's solution to the problem.

I believe you did write a comprehensive "how to" on oil changes, is there a reason you want a shop to do the ATF change?

 

[DrWebster]

I believe you did write a comprehensive "how to" on oil changes, is there a reason you want a shop to do the ATF change?

It's because a full ATF change is more than a drain-and-fill. The whole ATX holds over 8 quarts, but the pan only holds 3. Sure, I could just do drain-and-fills every 5k, but then I'd have fluid that's perpetually dirty. There is a procedure for doing a DIY flush (where you hook a length of clear tubing up to the output of the pancake tranny cooler, start the car and have it pump out 3 quarts, then refill the pan and repeat until fresh fluid starts coming out), and I did it on my Mazda 3 when I had it, but I was never really comfortable with it as there's the real risk of fluid starvation in the ATX. Shops have fluid change machines that allow you to dump all the new fluid into a reservoir, and it'll pump out all the old fluid while pumping in the new all in one shot.

 

[upthemiddle]

I know Honda actually recommends the drain and fill procedure 3X as their ATF change. An algorithm shows that 83% of the fluid is replaced this way, so less than a fifth of the remaining fluid is "old". If this is done on a regular basis then the ATF will always be doing its job. Even with an engine oil change 100% of the fluid is never changed. So I think a flush is not really necessary if a drain and fill is done a regular basis. I know fluid starvation in a Honda AT will kill it and any type of flush is not recommended by the factory. Correct me if I'm wrong but I highly doubt Mazda would ever specify hooking up tubing and connecting it to a disconnected tranny line from the cooler and then running the engine. That sounds like potential transmission damage to me.