Not sure how you can have fun, with FWD or AWD? You can't even have fun on ice or snow with a CX5 due to the constant intervention of the ESP.
looking to buy a cx-5. is AWD worth the money?
- Thread starter npannu
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Not sure how you can have fun, with FWD or AWD? You can't even have fun on ice or snow with a CX5 due to the constant intervention of the ESP.
What an odd thing to complain about. Did you think you were buying a serious life tool or a juvenile plaything?
Every time I'm driving in the snow and ice I see people endangering myself and my wife and any- children that are along. They spin donuts in the middle of the roads and parking lots, generally driving fast enough to try to break traction. In my opinion, the fewer yahoos, the better. I find snow and ice driving very relaxing and enjoyable except for the antics of those driving too fast for conditions and purposefully trying to lose traction. One more thing to have to be defensive about.
Oldengineer
Member
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- CX-5 Touring AWD
Sorry, I was dealing with a CRV whose traction control was not effective. All it did on wet or snowy streets, starting on a hill, was usually make the nose of car move side to side - no matter how easy I tried to get it going. I tried 3 different brands of tires on it during the 4 years I owned it, and, none substantially helped its ability. The CRV also hydroplaned at much lower speeds than any vehicle I've owned in years. Driving for business over 35 years here in WV, I've had 4 Ford Front drives, 14 Chrysler front drives, a Saturn Aura, and a Jaguar S-Type 4.2 RWD - all were more competent in bad weather and snow. When I bought my first AWD vehicle, the 03 X-Type, I liked the way it simply handled rain and snow with no drama. That's why there's now 2 AWD vehicles in my garage. I'm getting uncomfortably close to 70 years old, and, can't put chains on, swap snow tires on, etc. - like I did years ago. I'll leave that stuff to you young people.
Regards:
Oldengineer
Regards:
Oldengineer
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Slow down with your presumptions! I was simply commenting on the fact that Chris said the CX5 is fun in the rain, which I find surprising considering you can not have fun in the snow.
I am happy you like to drive carefully in the ice and snow, I drive like that too. But when the roads are deserted, I like to go to a quiet area, out of sight or sound of anybody and see how the car handles. How fast will it accelerate and brake with TC on or off, what does the ESP do in a power slide etc. It's no harm to anybody, indeed, if I were to lose control when not intended, it may be an advantage to know how the car would handle. I do two trips to the Nordschleife a year to drive cars and one to Hockenheim on my ZX6R, I know how to handle a car and when it's safe to have fun.
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- San Antonio, Texas
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- '15 CX-5 Miata AWD
On a track you'd have to pull the abs fuse to disable esp on our car. Tired of all the high horse snooty douchebags here.
Exactly what I was thinking. Knowing the limits of your car, and how it behaves when you push them (intentionnaly or not) makes you a better driver. Playing around with you car in a safe, deserted or controled place is a great way to learn these things.
I thought it, you said it
Getting back on topic, the op should really consider proper winter tires first. AWD sounds more like a nice to have rather than a must.
Pretty much what I have been saying from the start!
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- San Antonio, Texas
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- '15 CX-5 Miata AWD
Nothing wrong with being defensive around people being unsafe in traffic or around other cars in general; something me and Watson clearly are not interested in, nor did we imply. I'd say that most people doing motorsports in cars/bikes/planes what have you are not juveniles at all. 98% of my driving is DD. The rest is would be "doing a donut" or something of that sort. I have no confusion as to what I was buying when I got this car; if I wanted a juvenile play thing I'd get a nice go kart or dirt bike for about 28k less and it would be 100% shenanigans.
That's my perspective exactly!
lol!!
I can't think of a single track facility in North America that lets it members or guests on the tarmac during snow/ice conditions so I don't see how it's relevant to this discussion. If this comment is too high horse or snooty for you, you can shove it in your douchebag and smoke it. LOL!
I am in central N.J. so no big hills and I can avoid back roads, but lots of snow and ice. FWD is more than adequate for my needs. As many have said pay attention to your tires. I don't have snow tires but i scrutinize Tire Rack all season tire ratings for snow performance. Not all 4 season tires are created equal. During every snow storm here you have idiots driving fast thinking AWD will help then stop on a dime and not slide on ice - WRONG. I guess if I had hills to deal with i would consider AWD but I would have to test it against FWD with traction control (which all new cars have now anyway) and winter tires. Sane driving and good tires are more important than AWD - in most situations. Just my .02
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- San Antonio, Texas
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- '15 CX-5 Miata AWD
watson made a comment about the esp/dsc, which you cant disable with buttonology, unlike the 3/6
I drive in conditions to my cabin where ground clearance comes into play so AWD, snow tires and even chains on the extreme come into play. I have to use the snowblower more times than not to get my vehicle into my cabin in the winter. If that doesn't work then snowmobile(snow machine) &
Glad to see you putting your CX-5 through some real world challenges. How steep is the approach to your cabin? Have you actually had to chain up (other than to get up a steep driveway)?
My ski cabin is generally accessible with FWD and snow tires but there are times I would be packing food, luggage and any other equipment the final 20 yards if not for the handy AWD. I could shovel the driveway but that's a lot of time and effort. Much easier to just plow my own path with the CX-5 and a heavy right foot. Never failed to make it to the top even when the CX-5's body is dragging a good two inches in heavy snow. Zoom-zoom!
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My old R32 had no ground clearence but had AWD with winter tires and 250bhp, used it for plowing a lot when I was on call in the middle of the night and had to get to work on untreat roads, great fun.
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mz3_driver
Member
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- 2014 Mazda3 GS
First, my gripe - not being able to turn off ESP on the CX-5 AWD is a big loss IMO. I am very glad I can turn off TC on my '14 Mazda3 GS, which I do every time there is snowfall. TC kills any momentum I may have gained. Sometimes you just need good ol' wheel spin to get through deep snow. It was similar in the Audi I had prior to this ('05 Allroad). Even with AWD and snow tires, shutting off ESP was crucial in going through deep and packed (edit: not so much packed but as 'dense') (as in 8-12" deep) snow. Slight/moderate wheel spin was essential to keeping the momentum going.
Two - CX-5 does not have full-time AWD system, it's reactionary. As such, it doesn't help when cornering, only if you happen to spin front wheels, which is too little too late. A full-time AWD system provides traction to all wheels continuously which is helpful in preventing loss of control during cornering. Even haldex systems (which are AWD-on-demand systems) in VW and Audi A3/S3 use software to preload the differential in anticipation of what might be happening (such as when turning), but Mazda CX-5 doesn't have it. It's just a basic AWD-on-demand system that is helpful in take-off or when parking.
Two - CX-5 does not have full-time AWD system, it's reactionary. As such, it doesn't help when cornering, only if you happen to spin front wheels, which is too little too late. A full-time AWD system provides traction to all wheels continuously which is helpful in preventing loss of control during cornering. Even haldex systems (which are AWD-on-demand systems) in VW and Audi A3/S3 use software to preload the differential in anticipation of what might be happening (such as when turning), but Mazda CX-5 doesn't have it. It's just a basic AWD-on-demand system that is helpful in take-off or when parking.
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You're confused, TCS (traction control) and ESP (stability control) are different things.
In the CX-5, you can absolutely turn off the TCS. But you cannot turn off the stability control, and this holds true for most cars. In Canada at least, stability control is legally required to be in all new vehicles, and there are legal implications to disabling it.
My experience doesn't bear this out at all. In extremely icy conditions, a quick stab of the throttle when going round corners kicks the back end out, signifying the rear wheels kicking in and doing their job. I can't recall a single incidence of understeer at all in the CX-5; the AWD system works round corners just fine.
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I have a lot of experience on snow with the CX5, the roads are hard pack snow right now and I will enjoy the drive to work in the morning 
TC works well, prevents most wheel slip and makes the car very sure footed in the snow. It can be tuned off, the wheels spin if you want them too.
ESP can not be turned off, but it does let you power slide to a certain extent, during a corner if I put my foot down, the back end certainly steps out, and is controllable, it can be a lot of fun. The backwheels will drive within milliseconds of the fronts losing grip, you don't even notice its not permanent.
If you can not get the backend out, it is to do with the way the ESP is setup or the balance of the car, most modern cars will understeer, it's the safest method for Joe Bloggs to get through the snow to his work, my Impreza Turbo would do doughnuts all day and spin on the centre point of the car, my R32 had more power, a Haldex AWD system but was the most boring car in the snow, similar to the CX5. Sometimes you need to encourage the slide by loading up the outside wheels and giving some gas just at the right time to initiate the slide.
Once you get into a bigger drift in the CX5, the ESP freaks out and brakes the inside wheels to sort you out if you like it or not, handbrake turns have smoke coming out the ECU while it tries to sort it out!
*disclaimer* all off the above is done well out the way of other cars, children or animals, I can only hurt myself and my car
TC works well, prevents most wheel slip and makes the car very sure footed in the snow. It can be tuned off, the wheels spin if you want them too.
ESP can not be turned off, but it does let you power slide to a certain extent, during a corner if I put my foot down, the back end certainly steps out, and is controllable, it can be a lot of fun. The backwheels will drive within milliseconds of the fronts losing grip, you don't even notice its not permanent.
If you can not get the backend out, it is to do with the way the ESP is setup or the balance of the car, most modern cars will understeer, it's the safest method for Joe Bloggs to get through the snow to his work, my Impreza Turbo would do doughnuts all day and spin on the centre point of the car, my R32 had more power, a Haldex AWD system but was the most boring car in the snow, similar to the CX5. Sometimes you need to encourage the slide by loading up the outside wheels and giving some gas just at the right time to initiate the slide.
Once you get into a bigger drift in the CX5, the ESP freaks out and brakes the inside wheels to sort you out if you like it or not, handbrake turns have smoke coming out the ECU while it tries to sort it out!
*disclaimer* all off the above is done well out the way of other cars, children or animals, I can only hurt myself and my car
mz3_driver
Member
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- 2014 Mazda3 GS
Indeed I am, didn’t realize the CX-5 has two separate systems. On my ’05 Audi, there was just one button, ESP. It controlled wheel spin from the start on slippery surfaces (rain, ice, snow), but I could turn it off. It also provided stability control at higher speeds.
The more you know…
I can kick the back end out in my FWD Mazda3 going around the corner on slippery surface, so it doesn’t say much. Understeer or oversteer are not good measures. To test properly, you need two similar vehicles, one with full-time AWD (subaru forester perhaps), and compare to CX-5, then perform a series of tests.
