Denied warranty

[Hiimrandy]

Hi everyone, long time lurker as the wife has owned mazdas since 2007 (mazda 3 and now a CX5) just finally had to join to ask a question i couldn't quite get the answer for by searching - which is another way of saying, thanks for the awesome forum, its got just about everything!

Anyway, we are being denied warranty coverage on a rear caliper and would appreciate your thoughts if they are right or if i should take it farther up the line.

The vehicle is a 2017 mazda CX5 with ~55,000km. It has already had rear brakes done as they were totally worn out (evenly, but wore out).

details:

1. Rear drivers side brake found to be extremely hot (could clearly smell brakes) after being on the highway.

2. Didn't even want to drive to the dealer as it was, so I took it apart (entering maintenance mode first) and found the caliper slide pins to be good and free and the pads were also pretty good (able to remove by hand - not stuck in to the point i needed to pry/bang them out). Given that, i think i was servicing them properly and it wasn't that the pad(s) themselves caused the issue.

3. The outside pad of the drivers side was the one taking the brunt of the hit and was almost worn out.

4. Cleaned the bracket, lubed the holder/clips (top and bottom, both sides - pad side and bracket side). reassembled.

5. Seems to be OK. Dealer said it was likely the caliper (and it could do it again) but is denying me warranty coverage because i maintain the brakes myself - I declined their brake services.

My problem with their position is that the brake services they sell would not have prevented the caliper seizing. I highly doubt they take the piston out the caliper and clean/check it. they would have to bleed the whole system again. If someone knows i am wrong, please let me know.

I will note that they had no problem with the way they were serviced when i took it into the dealer. And the fact that all other brakes were OK as far as lube goes.

Also - the passengers side is perfect (rears were replaced at ~50,000km as they were totally (and evenly) worn out. which i thought was early.

What does everyone think? Should I keep trying to get it covered under warranty or am I out of luck?


Thanks in advance.

Cheers,

 

[pcardoza]

Assuming you used OEM parts when you serviced the brakes yourself, the warranty should still be in force. There's no requirement that the dealer perform all services.

If you used non-Mazda branded parts, all bets are off.

 

[sm1ke]

IMO you should be fine to continue the fight for warranty coverage. I could be wrong, but my understanding is that if they are going to deny warranty coverage, they need evidence that the issue was caused by the parts used or the shop that did the work. So for example, if you took the car to an independent shop and they screwed up by not putting it into Maintenance Mode, there is clear evidence that someone who didn't know what they were doing, worked on the car and caused the problem. In the manuals, Mazda always recommends that the car be serviced by an authorized Mazda service center, but they do not require it. If there is no evidence that the brake system was compromised by you, they cannot legally deny warranty coverage. Meaning they would have to prove that you installed a brake component incorrectly. I'm not sure if using Mazda-branded parts is required, but even if that were the case, they would need to prove that the aftermarket brake pads you used are the direct cause of the uneven wear (which wouldn't be the case as they are working just fine on the passenger side's brakes).

If I were in your shoes, I would respectfully remind them of your rights as an owner, then open a claim with Mazda's corporate office in your region and take it from there.

 

[davmac]

Second: Take the complaint further up the line to regional service contacts. Be aware you are in a gray area. Brake pads are wear items not covered by warranty. But if the caliper locked up that would be a manufacturer defect that should be covered.
I can understand the dealer reluctance. It is not so much the quality of the pads you used - that should not matter. But, it is impossible for the dealer to know if the way you serviced the rear brakes could have damaged the caliper - given the electric e-brake mechanism is involved. I believe you did nothing wrong - because you know about the service mode requirement and only one caliper is a problem.
Echo of sm1ke comment: Be respectful, make the point above and confine your claim to the single bad caliper. I think your chances are good to get a caliper replaced under warranty.

Another comment: 55km (=34K miles) does seem a bit early to have rear brake pads needing replacement. But, a majority of city and stop and go driving could do that. FWIW I'm close to the same miles on a 2018. I did not measure the pad thickness, but visually inspected front and rear brakes when installing snow tires and there is plenty of brake pad left.

 

[ralf11]

Tell Mazda that their dealer just violated the Magnusen-Moss Warranty Act. Do you have any friends who are attorneys and could send out a fun letter on their letterhead?

Put the exact date and as close as possible to the time they told you this, and state the name and title of the person who said that. If in an Email it will be even better.

Or you can send a copy to your state Consumer Protection agency - usually in the Office of the Attorney General, which will look nice on the cc line. Be sure to mention the magic words "Class Action lawsuit"...

 

[ceric]

To OP,
Call Mazda 800 number (on their website mazdausa.com) first and explain to them your issue.
See how it goes from there.

My '14 Mazda3 ran into a rear left brake issue at 15k miles (forgot exact mileage). Dealer found that the rear left was at 30% while the rest were at 70% or more. That was abnormal. My service advisor called MazdaUSA directly. (remind you that brake pads are covered by 1 yr 10k (or 12k) only) MazdaUSA agreed to pay for the labor... (pad is very cheap.. I paid for that).
There was no way I could have caused the rear left pad to wear down faster than others. So, the fault was clearly not on me....

Strange wearing does happen sometimes. That never happened again. Root cause was unknown. The car has 35K now. No brake pad issues.

 

[Hiimrandy]

Appreciate all the responses. I will try to use them all in one way or another. I’ll keep it respectful but persistent. I’ll follow the chain (service manager is back in Monday) then the dealership owner then Mazda Canada contact number if needed.

I think the acts noted above are in the US only.

They have hinted that the service manager might be able to “do something” to help Monday. We will see.

I’ll try to remember to update this thread with the outcome to help anyone else that comes across something like this.

thanks again

 

[Anchorman]

If it isn’t showing any problems now, they’ll take the view that it could have been sticky pins and you didn’t give them chance to check. In other words there is nothing to fix. Their first step in warranty would probably have been the same. Is this a KE or a KF?

 

[madar]

Did you replace the brakes the first time around or the dealer?

 

[Hiimrandy]

If it isn’t showing any problems now, they’ll take the view that it could have been sticky pins and you didn’t give them chance to check. In other words there is nothing to fix. Their first step in warranty would probably have been the same. Is this a KE or a KF?

It is a KF (second gen).

 

[Hiimrandy]

Did you replace the brakes the first time around or the dealer?

I did the brakes myself.

 

[Hiimrandy]

Can anyone confirm the full brake service routine? They are hanging their hat on the fact that the caliper itself would get disassembled. I.E the piston removed from the caliper, everything checked, lubed etc. I just can't imagine they break the caliper down to that level as they would have to bleed the system again.

 

[davmac]

Sorry to hear this. For whatever reason this dealer has decided not to be an advocate for you. No point to further discuss brake service with them. You need to go to the regional service people and explain your case. Simply that you serviced your brakes yourself using the Mazda service manual. You know how to put the rear caliper into maintenance mode and to never turn the caliper piston - only push it straight in to make room for new pads and rotor. Your brakes worked perfectly for five thousand kms but then one caliper locked up. The caliper has since released, but the pads on that side are ruined and you have no confidence in the caliper and feel it should be replaced under warranty.

The dealer response makes no sense. If I were the dealer I would argue that the electric parking brake was damaged by you. That you were not aware and did not follow the necessary maintenance mode procedure or twisted the caliper piston to force it back into the caliper. That would be an easy mistake to make. If the electric parking brake was damaged it could result in the caliper locking up later when using the parking brake.
The caliper piston would never be removed unless the caliper was going to be rebuilt. These brakes with electric parking brake motors are tricky. On some cars you must use an expensive bi-directional diagnostic tool to put them into maintenance mode - so I guess we are lucky. But the only service to the caliper would be to pull the caliper bolts, clean and lightly lube them.

 

[Anchorman]

These are the instructions for the pad and the caliper

 

[davmac]

Thanks for the service manual sections those are great to have.
There’s no reason to remove the caliper piston during brake service.
Last bit of input: if Mazda refuses to replace the caliper under warranty at least save some money by getting the replacement at medcenter Mazda. The online part price is $130 (with, I think, free shipping) versus a list price of $180.