CX-5 Tapping noise

[Jack Rabbit]

Ok. Engine has been making noise for some time now. Indy mechanic last year said its just injectors. Took to dealer last year to have whole car checked out and said check the engine for any problems, especially cracked cylinder head. Vocally mentioned the sound and was told it's the injectors. They had the vehicle and heard it running.

I usually jump in my car and startup and then drive.

So today, while checking the brakes, left vehicle idling to go get my wheelchocks, and heard this from 60 feet away.

Sure sounds like the valves to me.

Also if you listen you can hear both the injectors clicking but you can also hear the tapping noise.

And it hasn't thrown any engine related codes.

Any opinions?
Lifters, HLA's or injectors ???
Thanks.

 

[macker]

Engine running smoothly still. Noticed fresh oil on the dip stick AND coolant reservoir was near empty when I checked on the Saturday after getting the car back Friday (drove it around on the Friday a fair amount.

Called the service advisor (SA) to chat about the new oil, as the Oil Life monitor had not been reset. Also wanted to find out if they had emptied and refilled the cooling system with NEW FL22 coolant. Neither Oil or Coolant were noted on the work order.

The SA initially said she spoke to the tech and he said they just added coolant to the system after they replaced the water pump. but I pushed her to go back and speak to the tech about it further, since normally when you're changing coolant system components, i.e. rad hose, water pump, T-stat, etc., you typically drain the system first. She came back and said they did in fact drain the system and re-filled with new coolant. A bit odd, but I guess I'll chock it up to a busy tech that may have worked other jobs.....

Confirmed the engine oil was drained and new oil added, but the filter was not changed, so guess I'll just continue to follow the 6 month change interval (3 months left).

 

[yrwei52]

Engine running smoothly still. Noticed fresh oil on the dip stick AND coolant reservoir was near empty when I checked on the Saturday after getting the car back Friday (drove it around on the Friday a fair amount.

Called the service advisor (SA) to chat about the new oil, as the Oil Life monitor had not been reset. Also wanted to find out if they had emptied and refilled the cooling system with NEW FL22 coolant. Neither Oil or Coolant were noted on the work order.

The SA initially said she spoke to the tech and he said they just added coolant to the system after they replaced the water pump. but I pushed her to go back and speak to the tech about it further, since normally when you're changing coolant system components, i.e. rad hose, water pump, T-stat, etc., you typically drain the system first. She came back and said they did in fact drain the system and re-filled with new coolant. A bit odd, but I guess I'll chock it up to a busy tech that may have worked other jobs.....

Confirmed the engine oil was drained and new oil added, but the filter was not changed, so guess I'll just continue to follow the 6 month change interval (3 months left).

Thanks for the update. The coolant level is low after you drove around is the indication that the tech didn’t do a good job to purge the air out of the cooling system after the water pump replacement. When the tech needs some parts including FL-22 coolant, he goes to parts department to get them, and those will be charged under your ticket. If your invoice doesn’t show the FL-22 coolant or even the oil been requested, that’s very suspicious to me. I just don’t believe the tech will use “his own left-over FL-22 coolant” for the large amount of coolant replacement during the water pump replacement. If you have time to stop by your Mazda dealer topping-off the FL-22 coolant, a visit to the service manager would be what I’d do.

 

[macker]

Thanks for the update. The coolant level is low after you drove around is the indication that the tech didn’t do a good job to purge the air out of the cooling system after the water pump replacement. When the tech needs some parts including FL-22 coolant, he goes to parts department to get them, and gets those charged under your ticket. If your invoice doesn’t show the FL-22 coolant or even the oil been requested, that’s very suspicious to me. I just don’t believe the tech will use “his own left-over FL-22 coolant” for the large amount of coolant replacement during the water pump replacement. If you have time to stop by your Mazda dealer to top-off the FL-22 coolant, a visit to the service manager would be what I do.

Not really unusual to have to top the coolant up after a change in my experience. I somewhat expected I might have to do that (have done it on my vehicles in the past when I've changed out coolant; some cooling systems are more tricky then others). I agree though that things are suspicious re: not noted on work order, though it's very obvious they did an oil change, the coolant is tougher to know).

Here's hoping I have no further issues. Only a couple of other Mazda dealers in the area, and they a further drive then the one I chose this time.

 

[edmaz]

... Here's hoping I have no further issues. ....

One thing I recommend doing (if you're not already doing so) is checking for weeping from the timing cover. I've read multiple accounts in the past on various auto forums of this (and other RTV gasket jobs) not being done 100% correctly. With both RTV setup/curing and proper bolt torquing both being potential stumbling blocks, it's in your best interest to monitor the gasket perimeter for any signs of leakage. Although quite a bit of it is difficult to see directly, a mirror and an inspection camera can help in getting a look at more of it.

 

[macker]

One thing I recommend doing (if you're not already doing so) is checking for weeping from the timing cover. I've read multiple accounts in the past on various auto forums of this (and other RTV gasket jobs) not being done 100% correctly. With both RTV setup/curing and proper bolt torquing both being potential stumbling blocks, it's in your best interest to monitor the gasket perimeter for any signs of leakage. Although quite a bit of it is difficult to see directly, a mirror and an inspection camera can help in getting a look at more of it.

Definitely plan to keep an eye on it. I have the benefit of a hoist, so can hopefully see most, if not all of the timing cover perimeter.

And apparently, unlike a "customer pays" repair, the work is only warranted until the car warranty expires....per my service advisor. So basically have till May to go back to them if any issues arise around their workmanship or parts used.

 

[edmaz]

Definitely plan to keep an eye on it. I have the benefit of a hoist, so can hopefully see most, if not all of the timing cover perimeter.

And apparently, unlike a "customer pays" repair, the work is only warranted until the car warranty expires....per my service advisor. So basically have till May to go back to them if any issues arise around their workmanship or parts used.

Definitely great to be able to have it hoisted and inspect from underneath

And IMO, careful monitoring for a couple of months should be enough time to detect any leaking/weeping, and get it back in to them if necessary. If it hasn't occurred by the end of April, then the work was done well and it's very unlikely to happen from that point on. That's presuming of course that you're driving it every day, or at least close to it.

 

[Jack Rabbit]

Definitely plan to keep an eye on it. I have the benefit of a hoist, so can hopefully see most, if not all of the timing cover perimeter.

And apparently, unlike a "customer pays" repair, the work is only warranted until the car warranty expires....per my service advisor. So basically have till May to go back to them if any issues arise around their workmanship or parts used.

I'm not understanding the whole warranty repair work. Shouldnt the repair(at least part's if not labor) be warranty for year regardless of when the PT expires?

 

[macker]

I'm not understanding the whole warranty repair work. Shouldnt the repair(at least part's if not labor) be warranty for year regardless of when the PT expires?

I thought the same, i.e. should be warranted for at least a yr. or so many miles...whichever comes first, but she made a point of telling me that wasn't the case.

 

[Jack Rabbit]

This tapping problem may be more widespread...

Parked my car and was walking through store parking lot and heard tapping noise. Here it was coming from another CX-5 that was idling. Younger gentle-man was waiting on his wife to come out of store and had his radio turned up. I said "can't you hear that?". After he got out, he finally heard it and plans to take it in to dealer.

 

[macker]

This tapping problem may be more widespread...

Parked my car and was walking through store parking lot and heard tapping noise. Here it was coming from another CX-5 that was idling. Younger gentle-man was waiting on his wife to come out of store and had his radio turned up. I said "can't you hear that?". After he got out, he finally heard it and plans to take it in to dealer.

I've been tempted now every time I see another CX-5 owner/driver to ask if they have had any issues.

Regarding my recently replaced HLA's, car continues to run as it should....quietly.

In other news......We have another cold snap hitting here in Calgary over the next 2-3 days. I've emailed my service advisor to see if I can bring car in and leave it again overnight to see if the bad vibration issue can be replicated (There's a Mazda TSB suggesting problem is with motor mount(s)). Probably my last shot at replicating the issue and getting it covered under warranty before it expires in May.

 

[edmaz]

This tapping problem may be more widespread...

Yes, with the only early symptom being noise, this HLA air bubble issue could be happening to some owners who always have their audio on, or to those who are just oblivious to engine noise like this. Time will tell what the full scope of this will actually turn out to be.

 

[edmaz]

.... Probably my last shot at replicating the issue and getting it covered under warranty before it expires in May.

I'm surprised that they will cover engine mounts under powertrain warranty, but good for you that they will be doing that. That said, I didn't take the time to read through the warranty, so perhaps mounts are listed as a covered item.

Good to read that your vehicle's engine is still quiet, and hopefully it will continue that way right through the upcoming period of cold weather!

 

[macker]

I'm surprised that they will cover engine mounts under powertrain warranty, but good for you that they will be doing that. That said, I didn't take the time to read through the warranty, so perhaps mounts are listed as a covered item.

Good to read that your vehicle's engine is still quiet, and hopefully it will continue that way right through the upcoming period of cold weather!

SA has already ordered the parts and expects them in Wednesday. Given our cold climate here, I'm pretty sure they've already seen/done the repair a few times. I supplied her with the TSB. And yes, TSB says covered under powertrain warranty.

 

[edmaz]

SA has already ordered the parts and expects them in Wednesday. Given our cold climate here, I'm pretty sure they've already seen/done the repair a few times. I supplied her with the TSB. And yes, TSB says covered under powertrain warranty.

Nice for you to have a competent and owner-friendly service dept, that's willing to do this warranty stuff without giving you any waffling or pushback!

 

[yrwei52]

I'm surprised that they will cover engine mounts under powertrain warranty, but good for you that they will be doing that. That said, I didn't take the time to read through the warranty, so perhaps mounts are listed as a covered item.

Good to read that your vehicle's engine is still quiet, and hopefully it will continue that way right through the upcoming period of cold weather!

 

[macker]

Nice for you to have a competent and owner-friendly service dept, that's willing to do this warranty stuff without giving you any waffling or pushback!

So far, they seem pretty reasonable. I was asked to prove that I had done oil changes per Mazda schedule though when I took it in for the HLA replacement. Not sure it really applies when we're talking about a known issue that has nothing to do with oil changes though? Regardless, the SA said Mazda is asking more frequently for proof of proper maintenance when doing drive train repairs.

 

[edmaz]

So far, they seem pretty reasonable. I was asked to prove that I had done oil changes per Mazda schedule though when I took it in for the HLA replacement. Not sure it really applies when we're talking about a known issue that has nothing to do with oil changes though? Regardless, the SA said Mazda is asking more frequently for proof of proper maintenance when doing drive train repairs.

Mazda (or any other automaker) asking for proof of maintenance is totally expected and reasonable. And the HLA issue is actually very much oil-related, and it's entirely possible that dirty oil might contribute to air bubbles in the HLAs. So no problem whatsoever with them asking you for proof of maintenance.

But when they venture beyond the maintenance documentation, and start inventing reasons to not do warranty repairs, that's when the problems for the owner begin. And from what you wrote, there was none of that in your case.

 

[Jack Rabbit]

Work is completed. Hydraulic lash adjusters (8) replaced, timing cover gasket replaced and water pump replaced. Engine sounds nice and quiet again. We'll see after it sits overnight. Some oil burning off now from the repairs. Was told it may linger for a day or two depending on how much the car is driven. I'll be keeping a close eye on that...

Here's a snip from the work order showing work done. Got a chuckle when I saw the notation about the TPMS indicator flashing.....I don't have TPMS on my snow rims/tires.

View attachment 316973

Macker:

So I understand, they only replaced the 8 switchable HLA's and your CX-5 sounds fine now ?
No noise or problems in the past month?

Thanks again for all you input on this.

 

[Jack Rabbit]

One thing I recommend doing (if you're not already doing so) is checking for weeping from the timing cover. I've read multiple accounts in the past on various auto forums of this (and other RTV gasket jobs) not being done 100% correctly. With both RTV setup/curing and proper bolt torquing both being potential stumbling blocks, it's in your best interest to monitor the gasket perimeter for any signs of leakage. Although quite a bit of it is difficult to see directly, a mirror and an inspection camera can help in getting a look at more of it.

I need one of these.

Don't know if I should get the $20 Amazon camera that connects to cellphone or the $80 harbor freight camera.

Which one do you have ?

 

[edmaz]

I need one of these.

Don't know if I should get the $20 Amazon camera that connects to cellphone or the $80 harbor freight camera.

Which one do you have ?

I've been using a cheapo for a number of years, which has served me well for automotive, and also many other DIY usages. It works very well for most of the simple situations that I need it for. That said, I'd be the first to agree that these single, fixed camera units be REALLY cumbersome to do detailed inspection of multiple surfaces or angles. The 90 degree adapter that most of them come with doesn't offer very much help in most complex situations, and I rarely use it. Maneuvering the cam by twisting and pulling the wire up and down can be a RPITA and, in some cases just flat out impossible.

The cheapo units perform particularly poorly when it comes to inspecting inside cylinders. I've used mine to inspect valves and cylinder walls, but only on a curiosity basis, and not actually trying to diagnose an issue. It doesn't take long to realize that the $20 cams are totally unsuited for that purpose. So I've holding off on buying a better unit, waiting for an actual need to have one. And now that we finally have vehicles with direct injected engines, I'm actively shopping for a better cam, which is capable of doing a decent job of inspecting input valve surfaces.

I'd been planning on buying a unit which have a single camera that's controlled and manipulated remotely via some type of joystick. But just recently I've been looking at https://www.amazon.com/dp/ (commissions earned) DEPSTECH mulit-camera tool, and will most likely be giving that one a try in the near future. But if it doesn't work well for cylinder/valve inspection, then back it goes and I'll go with one of the moving camera models instead.

Long winded reply to your question, but I think it's the type of information that you're looking for.