aftermarket brake pads and rotors issues

[kms1990]

i have been chasing a rather odd issue with my 08 3 hatch recently, i put duralast gold rotors and duralast max pads on the front and about 750 miles later i started getting a shimmy in the steering wheel at about 60-68ish mph thought wheel balace so got wheels balanced and went through a whole new set of wheels and tires a few months ago to no avail. jacked the car up and put sharpie on the rotor and noticed at a certain spot it would rub the sharpie off but not anywhere else on the rotor, so i figured rotor had warped, got new rotors (same kind warrantied) and the gold pads (autozone oe type or mid level) problem went away for about 500 miles now its back again. so doing further research i see the autozone rotors are measured at 25mm thick and 300mm diameter for the front and some other after markets say 24.8 or 24.9mm thick and some say 299.8mm diameter which i know a few tenths of a millimeter doesnt sound like alot but i think my brakes are rubbing and causing the issue some of the after markets (with similar part #s to autozone, so chinese no name) say the same 25mm thick and 300mm diameter, which maybe rounding which should not be done in bakes. since i work at autozone i went and got pads from the dealer(cheap looking over priced crap but made to mazdas thickness and other size standards, it says the ingredients on the back $60 for pads made of literal dirt) and measured overall thickness of the pads of both mazda and duralast pads on the shelf similar to ones on my car, all 3 brands at autozone the inner pad (one that clips in caliper piston) measured very similar to mazda pads however, the cheapo duralast basic exterior pads measured very close to mazda pads at about 17.4 ish mm in the middle near the slot but the golds and max pads measured 18.3 and 18.2 respectively at the same spot i think these measurements add up to enough extra material to cause a slight rub and create my issue. .1-.2mm thicker rotor with a 1 mm thicker outer pad is quite a bit considering how close pads sit to rotors to begin with, i know my caliper pistons work fine and are not stuck, the slides are also very well lubed, i learned that lesson early in my car working on days. this is the first car i have ever encountered a recurring brake rotor warp issue.

weird thing is the brake pedal feels fine with no pulsation upon application and the car drives perfect other than the shimmy at speed i have looked and had the suspension looked at by professionals and not me or the shops could see any issues with a suspension component causing my issue, plus i am confident its the brakes as when i changed them last time it went away for 500ish miles. and its not a very big or hard shimmy and if the road is slightly rough you would never notice it, but on newly repaved parts of the freeways and a new highway near me i can go drive where i know the road should be smooth but it feels like the road is a rumble strip, car makes no odd noises. if i jack up just one front wheel at a time the both spin fairly free and have no lateral play (i cannot move the wheel back and forth indicating failed hub bearing) however they do both make a scratch, or low pitched wreech or a slight dragging noise(hard to describe) that is very quiet and same pitch on both wheels when i spin them and only in one spot of the rotation on both sides , i think thats the rotor rubbing the too thick pads, however it keeps spinning even when noise is heard.

any ideas? i feel i am on the right path but i am looking for any advice if anyone else has experienced this issue. i am going to try a different brand(powerstop) of pads and rotors from rock auto as i had those on my last car and they were fantastic.

 

[concept]

Every shimmy I have ever experienced in my 42 years of driving was due to a wheel, tire, or suspension component issue. When I had Konig Brite Lite wheels on my 89 MX6 GT, the steering wheel shake would come and go. Balancing seemed to help for a while but the same issue would eventually rear its ugly head after awhile.

Do you have another set of wheels you can swap in? It looks like you tried this but were the second set OEM or higher-end wheels? I have never had OEM or Enkei wheels exhibit this type of issue. Of course, the Enkeis were twice the cost of the Konigs. Every time I had brake rotor wobble, it was evident ONLY while braking. The most recent episode was due to uneven pad deposits on my Corvette's OEM rotors. Slotted rotors cured that issue once and for all. But the fact that your shimmy doesn't happen upon braking leads me to believe it is not your brakes. Bad bearings can cause this and applying the brakes can certainly reduce the severity in some cases.

If I were you, I'd take the car to a trusted alignment shop. The one I used never failed to fix an issue that I couldn't solve on my own.

Good luck.

 

[GerryB]

Do you use a torque wrench when you put your wheels on? I even torque could cause rotor run out.

Sent from the wrong side of the tracks.

 

[kms1990]

Every shimmy I have ever experienced in my 42 years of driving was due to a wheel, tire, or suspension component issue. When I had Konig Brite Lite wheels on my 89 MX6 GT, the steering wheel shake would come and go. Balancing seemed to help for a while but the same issue would eventually rear its ugly head after awhile.

Do you have another set of wheels you can swap in? It looks like you tried this but were the second set OEM or higher-end wheels? I have never had OEM or Enkei wheels exhibit this type of issue. Of course, the Enkeis were twice the cost of the Konigs. Every time I had brake rotor wobble, it was evident ONLY while braking. The most recent episode was due to uneven pad deposits on my Corvette's OEM rotors. Slotted rotors cured that issue once and for all. But the fact that your shimmy doesn't happen upon braking leads me to believe it is not your brakes. Bad bearings can cause this and applying the brakes can certainly reduce the severity in some cases.

If I were you, I'd take the car to a trusted alignment shop. The one I used never failed to fix an issue that I couldn't solve on my own.

Good luck.

i have a new set of oem wheels and 2 separate shops one with a dual plane and one with a road force both verify the wheel and tire combo i have now is balanced and true. the car drives fine handles fine and runs fine other than this shimmy that moves the wheel very slightly at 65 or so mph no movement below and none above 70 that i can feel. ball joints cv axles bushings and tie rods are all with in spec according to a shop i trust. brakes were "warped" first time as i did my test and changing them fixed the issue, i think the autozone pads are too thick and it wont let the caliper slide right (the inboard pad measures right with dealer pad but outer is 1mm or so thicker.) car holds its lane the only other oddity i have noticed is during slow braking it will sometimes pull the wheel to one side (usually with curve or crown of road) when i almost come to a full stop so lets say 20mph-0mph is my stop it seems to occasionally pull the wheel slightly with curve of road at about 5 or so mph while braking. this is another thing that leads me to believe the pads maybe too thick and are riding the rotor and/or not letting the caliper slide 100% like it needs to

 

[kms1990]

Do you use a torque wrench when you put your wheels on? I even torque could cause rotor run out.

Sent from the wrong side of the tracks.

last time the wheels were off was changing the brakes and i used my friends torque wrench to set them. i have changed many brakes and never used a torque wrench(except this last time to eliminate any possibilities i could) and never had an issue with over/under tightened lugs causing warped rotors, i know it can happen though. replacing the brake pads and rotors caused the issue to go away for awhile. now its back, the oem pads are 17.4mm thick outboard duralast golds and max pads are 18.1-18.2mm thick outboard pad whiel regular cheapo duralasts are 17.5mm outboard pad thickness, online at rockauto centric also states the pads as being 17.4-17.8mm thick depending on model type, which leads me more to believe my issue is pads too thick.

 

[concept]

Yes, 1 mm (.04") is fairly significant. I think if thinner pads fix this shimmy issue, you can add it to your lessons learned book of strange oddities that happen once in a lifetime!

 

[GerryB]

I'd say you've got that on hand lol. Just spitballin.

Sent from the wrong side of the tracks.

 

[kms1990]

Yes, 1 mm (.04") is fairly significant. I think if thinner pads fix this shimmy issue, you can add it to your lessons learned book of strange oddities that happen once in a lifetime!

hey, guys further update, (note i was jacking it up and spinning the wheels before driving or after driving very short distances when troubleshooting this before) today i drove to an interview 75 miles round trip and after getting back i decided to check if anything changed after a long drive. (after noticing that it did not seem to vibrate or do it near as much till about half way to the interview and then continued while at speed the whole way back, guessing because its warmed up) so i jacked up the passenger side wheel and spun, nothing out of the ordinary no noise no play etc. then i did drivers side and it made a scraping noise sounded like metal on metal all the way around in the rotation. it was not overly loud and was not a typical "roar" of a wheel bearing the odd thing to is there is no play on that side either. however the noise leads me to believe my problem either the caliper not sliding right (it was sliding fine and lubed and it was relubed with brake caliper lube when we redid brakes 500 miles ago while still chasing this issue) or the caliper dragging slightly (brake pedal does not act funny, nor does car pull when braking and calipers were in great shape when we serviced the brakes noting wrong with pistons or seals ) so this leads me to think the hub bearing has started to fail. i did not have time to investigate further between the interview and work today so i am going to take the caliper off tomorrow and see if it still makes the noise, then i will know more and report further. if it is the bearing it sure did fail in a weird way, no audible noises while driving, no play when wiggling the wheels just vibration at speed. usually wheel bearings make a racket when they fail and you'll know sooner than later if you dont listen because the wheel will come off. then again our bearing setup is odd to me too so that maybe why, if its the cause, it failed in a way i am not used to.

anyone else think im on the right track?

i was surprised when my measurement on the pads was different like that but after a little more digging it seems that if there was no room for the slightly larger pads the caliper wouldnt sit on the rotor or would have had to have been forced on and the wheels most likely would not spin or would be very difficult to as it would force the brakes to act as if they were being used all the time which none of that has happened.

 

[concept]

I agree that worn bearings are not known to make a high-pitched noise. I would look very closely with a potent light to try to pinpoint the sound. A mechanic's stethoscope may prove or disprove the bearing theory.

 

[kms1990]

I agree that worn bearings are not known to make a high-pitched noise. I would look very closely with a potent light to try to pinpoint the sound. A mechanic's stethoscope may prove or disprove the bearing theory.

yeah i am trying that tomorrow i had some stuff come up this morning and wasnt able to get to it. i dont have a stethoscope (could just get one) but i was thinking of taking the caliper off the mount and spin just the rotor and see if anything changes/noise continues. but it was not a high pitched noise it was a low pitched scrape sound not like a whine. i would just figure if it was the bearing it would exhibit play when you grab and shake the wheel or make a noise while driving which neither seem to happen though today i did listen really good at about 40mph on an empty road and heard what sounded like a similar noise while driving. a/c was off radio off etc. it was a low pitched hum but i could not tell what was making the nosie as it was not very loud and the other person in the car did not hear anything abnormal.

 

[concept]

A low pitched hum could very well indicate a bearing that is on its way out. When you rock a wheel/tire and feel play, the bearing already has lots of wear under its belt. What you are hearing may represent the beginning stages.