A Tune?

[brandini]

Ok are you guys on mars? premium is .60 more expensive here... but we get 93. Also not you're not getting 10hp, that's just at the peak, you'll probably get more gain at a lower RPM due to torque gains and that's the meat of the power-band that Mazda does a poor job of educating the public about.

Also note with the tune you'll get better MPGs (if you can keep your foot out of it), so it'll help offset the increased cost.

And one more option, just get it tuned on 87 to start... Then have him tweak later to premium, then boost. He might even like an opportunity to take his time on an 87 tune for those just wanting drivability changes (like me for now).

 

[sac02]

I think we agreed with everything you seem to disagree about? (dunno)
Don't most places outside of California get 93?

Advertised gains of 8-12% (which is more than 10hp) and largest gains are likely not at peak power: Post #15
A tune often returns better MPG: Post #20

You must live in an unfortunate locality (gas-price-wise) for your premium gas to be $0.60 more per gallon, that's a lot, and somewhat abnormal.

The national average "premium" for premium is about $0.36
http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_gnd_dcus_nus_m.htm

The difference for the Central Atlantic region is $0.305 to $0.371, depending on if you have conventional or reformulated blends. Again, this is average for an entire region, it can vary significantly on a smaller scale.
http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_gnd_dcus_r1y_m.htm

 

[TonyC]

look forward to the data sac02. 3 baseline dynos run $75 where i am. i tend to do it for every car i own (that i care about -- this excludes the prius and the civics). i think since you have such major plans, it'd be worth it just to find out? plus, it'd be great to be able to call out DT if they're not producing results (naughty)

as far as CA gas, it's 0.20/gal between 87/91. At my usage, that means about $170-180/year. Unless the DT tune can provide the 2.5L w/ another proven/data-supported 5mpg++, it'd be hard to convince anyone (mainly, Her Majesty) to get the NA tune at $500+.

 

[MR6]

I would love to be able to provide dyno plots before/after (I also agree about the area under the curve part), but I can't justify that expense to myself when it's mainly for curiosity's sake, even though I love numbers ad data of all types, lol.

IMO people usually over-exaggerate the difference between regular and premium without doing the math (not accusing you, just sayin'... most people). Note: all of the numbers below are backed up with data that I can cite sources for, if you don't believe me. (rules)

14,000 miles at 24.98mpg = 560.4 gallons

560.4 gallons at $0.32 extra for premium = $179.34.

So it costs me an extra $179 per year to use premium (about $15 per month, or $3.45 per week). I'll gladly pay $179 in fuel for 10hp. Some people might not.
As you mention, it's not unusual for an NA tune to actually improve fuel mileage and gain power at the same time. Obviously better mileage would reduce this $179 figure.
We'll see if I have the NA tune on the car long enough to collect enough data (large enough sample size) to judge the tuned NA mpg, before I go FI.

I too have done the math comparing 87 vs 93 and decided that i'm keeping my MS3 But the minivan running on 87 not only saves a couple hundred a year, but during Sandy, 93 ran out faster than 87. To err on the side of caution, i didn't drive the MS3, but we still had the van. Just something to consider...

You should talk DT into giving you free dyno runs. They should be happy to, considering you can be their gateway to the pent up demand for a tune on this forum. I mean, how else are they gonna move a minivan tune lol Plus the future plans you have will likely inspire others to go FI. And i for one won't purchase a tune without a dyno plot. It's the only way to truly judge what you're buying. DT knows that...

 

[sac02]

haha, you've just described a car-buying criteria that I doubt I ever would have considered - disaster preparedness! (zombies)

You can always re-load the stock map (well, if your laptop still has juice left, that could be an issue I guess) or if you really need to get across town to check on grandma, I'd trust the stock ECU to protect the engine for critical trips with 87 octane with nice driving.

Do you have any sort of tune on your MS3?

Regarding the dyno runs - yeah, I may still talk myself into doing it. I'm not sure it will happen at DT, they seem to be keeping busy and not too eager to bust into the mazda5 minivan tuning market (see: rodslinger's difficulties getting his car tuned). I agree it would benefit them to have a before/after dyno of a 2.5L MZR engine though, strange that they don't advertise anything to that effect.

 

[oldpunk]

Well, I just purchased the dynotronics NA tune, so I'll be able to give some feedback on it soon, hopefully. I plan to use data to compare the before/after, not just butt dyno impressions.

Note, the main reason I purchased this now, is that I am putting together a turbo setup and purchasing the DT tune does several things

Did they happen to mention what gains you should expect for na?

 

[sac02]

Did they happen to mention what gains you should expect for na?

They advertised 8-12% on mazdaTresForums, and when I spoke to them on the phone they said the same.

 

[MR6]

haha, you've just described a car-buying criteria that I doubt I ever would have considered - disaster preparedness! (zombies)

You can always re-load the stock map (well, if your laptop still has juice left, that could be an issue I guess) or if you really need to get across town to check on grandma, I'd trust the stock ECU to protect the engine for critical trips with 87 octane with nice driving.

Do you have any sort of tune on your MS3?

Regarding the dyno runs - yeah, I may still talk myself into doing it. I'm not sure it will happen at DT, they seem to be keeping busy and not too eager to bust into the mazda5 minivan tuning market (see: rodslinger's difficulties getting his car tuned). I agree it would benefit them to have a before/after dyno of a 2.5L MZR engine though, strange that they don't advertise anything to that effect.

lol zombies. there's officially a smiley for everything! But i never woulda thought of it either had i not lived through it for over a week. The things we take for granted, ya know.

The more you describe DT the less i trust them. I did follow rodslinger's thread. DT just doesn't seem to have their heart in it, so to speak. But then again, this is a minivan we're talking about here so i shouldn't judge them too harshly. A dyno plot for a tune they hope to sell for a chunk of change isn't too much to ask for though? But i'm beating a dead horse...

No, i haven't tuned the MS3 yet. I have a history of sinking thousands into a car and then starting over with the next car and so forth and so onnnn and onnn. Kids are getting older and more expensive so i leased the MS3 knowing that leasing would keep me from tuning it. Now that i've recently decided to keep her & with all the mods i'm putting on the van, i feel the itch comin on... MUST RESIST COBB AP

 

[sac02]

Well I done payed my money to DT last week, currently going through the seemingly over-complicated process of getting keygens for both the software and cable, apparently a multi step process. Maybe by next week I'll be able to actually load a file? :/

 

[phunky.buddha]

Sorry guys, still working on a good time slot to get the 5 down to DynoTronics for a week and have them play with it. Sick kids and business travel = no bueno for dropping off a car.

 

[azmavhockey3]

Updates with DT?

 

[sac02]

No results yet from my side. I got the mazdaEdit software running on my computer, got it and the cable registered, was able to connect to the ECU and get an image of the stock ECU for Joe to work with. Sent it to him a couple weeks ago, haven't received the tuned file back yet. I've talked with him once or twice looking for updates, he promises it will be ready soon but haven't gotten anything yet.

 

[azmavhockey3]

so how much did this mazdaedit software cost?
Are you paying extra for the tunes?
will they have the tunes available on his website like cobb does for different set ups or stages?

sorry to say it, but it seems a little fishy... just to get an emailed tune that your going to trust your $3600 motor to run on... we will see... thanks for your updates though if it wasn't for guys like you we wouldn't have anything... so keep us up-to-date.

 

[sac02]

so how much did this mazdaedit software cost?
Are you paying extra for the tunes?
will they have the tunes available on his website like cobb does for different set ups or stages?

sorry to say it, but it seems a little fishy... just to get an emailed tune that your going to trust your $3600 motor to run on... we will see... thanks for your updates though if it wasn't for guys like you we wouldn't have anything... so keep us up-to-date.

Post #18 in this thread.
Tunes aren't off-the-shelf like Cobb AP for mazdaspeed3/6. You get a conservative modified baseline tune to run and do datalogging with. Then you send data logs to DT and he modifies the tune, then repeat the process until you and he are satisfied. DT has a dyno but doesn't feel that dyno pulls are necessary to tune the car like it was "back in the day", except for the last 2% if you really really want to (again, according to DT. I'm not a tuning expert).

 

[azmavhockey3]

Thanks, I didn't know how it worked. So are renting the install hardware or did you buy it?

 

[sac02]

Purchased. DT version of the mazdaEdit software requires the Tactrix OpenPort 2.0. Seems to be the fastest communicating interface currently on the market. DT sells it for $185, or rents it for a nominal amount, like $15?

I did a quick Google search at the time and found it for like $220 on Amazon. Then, (after I ordered from DT) I found it directly on the Tactrix site for $169. So, eh, I could have saved $15, but not really a big deal, Amazon would have been a rip-off though.

 

[brandini]

Purchased. DT version of the mazdaEdit software requires the Tactrix OpenPort 2.0. Seems to be the fastest communicating interface currently on the market. DT sells it for $185, or rents it for a nominal amount, like $15?

I did a quick Google search at the time and found it for like $220 on Amazon. Then, (after I ordered from DT) I found it directly on the Tactrix site for $169. So, eh, I could have saved $15, but not really a big deal, Amazon would have been a rip-off though.

Cool, so can we really log via the microSD card? That makes it WAY more do-able for me.... hmmmm. Can anyone confirm that logging is possible on SD card?

 

[sac02]

I haven't tried logging through the microSD card. I use it hooked up to my laptop logging using the mazdaEdit software. the mazdaEdit software is what allows you to read custom mazda PIDs.

 

[rodslinger]

I didn't even notice the microSD card slot on there. I'll have to check it out when I get back home.

 

[sac02]

Oh, an update on the DT tune:

Talked to Joe yesterday. He reported that the delay on my tune has been due to two things:
1. He hasn't dealt with this ECU PN (software rev? firmware rev? not sure) before, and the ECU software is somewhat unique - kind of a hybrid software of versions that he has seen before, he described it as similar in some ways to the skyactive ECUs, compared to the older mz3/mz5 he has seen. So it took him longer to find and define some of the tables he needed.
2. There is some glitch in the interface between the ECU and the mazdaEdit software GUI, where for example, he will input a desired AFR value and it will scrambled/corrupted. Per DT, they feel it's likely a hexadecimal calculation issue in the software and are working with the mazdaEdit developer (in Russia, I think) to correct it.

The above info is my understanding from the POV of someone who doesn't have much knowledge of programming and software engineering, lol. I tried to repeat what I heard and understood, but if I scrambled something, it's probably my fault, lol.

No update on an expected completion timing. I will continue to call once or twice a week for updates. (shrug)