A Tune?
- Thread starter oldpunk
- Start date
Dynotronics
http://www.dynotronicstuning.com/
Apparently there have been some issues with them being able to tune a 1st gen mz5 (2.3L), see thread by rodslinger: here
But I see you have a 2012, and the word (from Dynotronics at least) is that the 2nd gen mz5 2.5L ECU has been cracked and is ready to tune.
http://www.dynotronicstuning.com/
Apparently there have been some issues with them being able to tune a 1st gen mz5 (2.3L), see thread by rodslinger: here
But I see you have a 2012, and the word (from Dynotronics at least) is that the 2nd gen mz5 2.5L ECU has been cracked and is ready to tune.
You don't have to be on location for them to tune your car. They send you a data cable (option to rent or buy I think) and you flash their off-the-shelf tune through the OBD2 port.
Custom tuning is done by data logging and sending to Dynotronics, they tweak the tune based on your logs, then you reflash, log more data, tweak, repeat iterative process as necessary. Dynotronics has a dyno, but feels like they can get you 95% of the way there just with logging, a couple hours on the dyno is just for that last little bit if you feel like you need it.
I'm not promoting them, I've just spoken with them about it a fair amount since I plan to use them in the near future (thought I'm local to them, coincidentally)
$500 for 7hp is insane. these "box tunes" are just so generic. if they made it $500 for lifetime files, that'd make sense (like a lot of other euro-tuners), but at $300, dynotronics would sell a lot more of these. makes me wish i'd kept my obd2 tune cable from the other project though.. (mad)
IMO, $500 isn't that bad (and I thought I remembered it as being $450?) , the last two vehicles I had tuned were a BMW and a MINI, and both of those were closer to the $1k mark. Regarding the 7hp, yeah that not much, but there's honestly not much available on a modern NA engine. Engine management is a lot more complex than it was in the "old days" of burning chips for OBDI cars. That partially accounts for the expense, in addition to the limited gains.
IIRC from my conversations with Dynotronics, the price did include lifetime files? If you went from NA to turbo, it was an extra $200 (i.e. NA tune is $450, and turbo tune was $650, if you've already got the NA tune you just pay the difference for the turbo tune. tweaks are free if you get a new BOV or something, for example) At least that's what I was quoted when I talked to them.
IIRC from my conversations with Dynotronics, the price did include lifetime files? If you went from NA to turbo, it was an extra $200 (i.e. NA tune is $450, and turbo tune was $650, if you've already got the NA tune you just pay the difference for the turbo tune. tweaks are free if you get a new BOV or something, for example) At least that's what I was quoted when I talked to them.
I couldn't find anything specific for the 2.5 liter 5 though. I sent them an email but don't really expect to hear back from hypertech.
another euro tune datum: all of AMGs can be tuned at ~$600 now, including the obd2 table, and lifetime free retrunes. i'm not sure what that says about Bimmer owners but... $500 for Japanese 2.5L engine that has been around since '01, and is now officially deceased as far as Mazda is concerned, is nutzo. but that's just me. i'd rather fork out $400 for some msds headers, since that actually yields some hardware.
I'm curious who tunes AMGs for $600? Not doubting you, just my experience that stuff for european cars is often expensive for no reason other than "because we can"... economics, right? (rolleyes)
Steering gearbox for your 90's American whatever? 100 bucks and Autozone has it in stock. Or a rebuild kit for $15.
Steering gearbox for my '94 540i/6? $600 and a 3 week wait from Rockauto, or $1200 from the dealer. sheesh.
I'm not sure I've ever seen a reliable tune sold for less than say, $300? (not counting old OBDI burnt "chips") In the grand scheme $450 doesn't seem that out of line. I agree that for the minimal gains, it probably isn't the best bang-for-your-buck. But I plan on going FI, so in that case it's obviously necessary, and not unreasonable.
Steering gearbox for your 90's American whatever? 100 bucks and Autozone has it in stock. Or a rebuild kit for $15.
Steering gearbox for my '94 540i/6? $600 and a 3 week wait from Rockauto, or $1200 from the dealer. sheesh.
I'm not sure I've ever seen a reliable tune sold for less than say, $300? (not counting old OBDI burnt "chips") In the grand scheme $450 doesn't seem that out of line. I agree that for the minimal gains, it probably isn't the best bang-for-your-buck. But I plan on going FI, so in that case it's obviously necessary, and not unreasonable.
Eurocharged sold their tunes for $400 for nearly all AMGs last year. and a lot of people got in on the deals. They've since come out with a more expensive product, but it's via a handheld that you keep (ala SCT/Bama). They're dyno proven (first hand experience).
Link to a $400 sale here.
And these tunes made way, WAY more than 7hp. (2thumbs) I've looked into an older 540t before hopping into warrantied e-class wagon. The parts prices scared the EFF out of me.
FI = tune for sure, of course, but again, dynotronics pricing structure is INSANE if they want $700 for a "turbo" tune. I'm curious how you plan on 'charging your '5? I'd love to do it (after the warranty is over)
Link to a $400 sale here.
And these tunes made way, WAY more than 7hp. (2thumbs) I've looked into an older 540t before hopping into warrantied e-class wagon. The parts prices scared the EFF out of me.
FI = tune for sure, of course, but again, dynotronics pricing structure is INSANE if they want $700 for a "turbo" tune. I'm curious how you plan on 'charging your '5? I'd love to do it (after the warranty is over)
i remember seeing m6 dynotronix dyno gained only 7hp. but here, on a m3 2.5L w/ some sort of intake, it showed 25hp/tq gain on 93oct which makes me just think something is effin wrong (huh)
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/706/7a0c.png/
but it's on a dynapack. also, there's no way our cars will put down 161hp stock anyway...
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/706/7a0c.png/
but it's on a dynapack. also, there's no way our cars will put down 161hp stock anyway...
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Here is the specific post where Joe claims 8-12% gains on a stock 2.5L. Based on 157hp, 8% is 12.5, and 18.8. He could be (and likely is) quoting those numbers as the peak gains elsewhere in the powerband, not necessarily the gains at the peak power point. Either way, that number seems pretty high to me, but I'm not the expert either. Actually it just crossed my mind that the tune probably requires 93 octane, so on second thought since your're going from 87 to 93 octane there is a little more wiggle room, so maybe not that unbelievable.
That $400 AMG tune is impressive, I would have thought AMG tunes would follow the common pricing structure where the tune is expensive because the car is expensive. (Though I guess in a lot of cases they're not that expensive anymore; the CL is the default "bro" car now, it seems) **fingers crossed you didn't have a CL, lol**
That $400 AMG tune is impressive, I would have thought AMG tunes would follow the common pricing structure where the tune is expensive because the car is expensive. (Though I guess in a lot of cases they're not that expensive anymore; the CL is the default "bro" car now, it seems) **fingers crossed you didn't have a CL, lol**
I've been doing a TON of research, but I keep coming back to the Tripoint kit, I just don't think I can gather everything together myself for significantly less than the price of the kit. Even if I could save $500 or $1k, it would require a lot of time and effort on my part, searching vendors and message boards for deals, or sales, or used parts (and then I have used stuff, not new)... Just buying the kit doesn't seem like a bad idea when I include my time as a cost.
I'm looking at Dynotronics because Tripoint said they would sell their turbo kit without the AEM F/IC (and reduce the price the requisite amount) if I want to procure my own tune. And I would prefer to flash the stock ECU instead of using a piggyback like the F/IC.
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rodslinger says dynotronics has 2.5L tune down, so that'd seen like an obvious option for me as well, especially since Tri-point is in LA and I'm familiar w/ their older RX7 products. but anyway, I'm probably 2 years away myself, just watching what you guys are doing, and hoping Tri-Point wont "run out of" turbo kits since the webpage says they've only produced 5 sets? $4K is a lot of moola though...
Well, I just purchased the dynotronics NA tune, so I'll be able to give some feedback on it soon, hopefully. I plan to use data to compare the before/after, not just butt dyno impressions.
Note, the main reason I purchased this now, is that I am putting together a turbo setup and purchasing the DT tune does several things:
1) gets me access to datalogging software (I was looking at spending $250 for the mazdaEdit software, then learned that a DT tune basically comes with a free copy), so I can get familiar with the engine parameters and get an understanding of the baseline before I start screwing around with boost.
2) It spreads out the cost of the build some - spent $450 now, and $200 later, rather than $650 later.
3) Who knows, maybe it will really make some more NA power in the meantime. Can't argue with that, though it is far from the #1 reason that I purchased it in my case.
Note, the main reason I purchased this now, is that I am putting together a turbo setup and purchasing the DT tune does several things:
1) gets me access to datalogging software (I was looking at spending $250 for the mazdaEdit software, then learned that a DT tune basically comes with a free copy), so I can get familiar with the engine parameters and get an understanding of the baseline before I start screwing around with boost.
2) It spreads out the cost of the build some - spent $450 now, and $200 later, rather than $650 later.
3) Who knows, maybe it will really make some more NA power in the meantime. Can't argue with that, though it is far from the #1 reason that I purchased it in my case.
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- :
- 2009 Mazda 5 Touring & 2012 MS3
450 for small gains and the need for 93 octane ($) is not heading in the right direction for me. If i were going FI then of course but i can't justify it for an NA tune on a minivan...on any car for that matter. But i'm looking forward to your findings sac. A dyno plot would be excellent, if possible. The area under the curve says a lot more than peak #'s. I wonder if they'd do a tune with the goal of better gas mileage? I plan to keep her till the wheels fall off so the tune will eventually pay for itself....maybe 
I definitely think DT (or even the end user with some knowledge of the ECU tables) could do a MPG map. The MS3 guys create multiple maps for mpg, drag, DD, track, etc using the Cobb AP - and the mazdaEdit software is generally more powerfull than the AP (from what I can tell without actually using it), so I see no reason why not. Though I have to qualify this with the understanding that I'm not an ECU tuner (though I'm learning more every day) and haven't tried it myself.
I would love to be able to provide dyno plots before/after (I also agree about the area under the curve part), but I can't justify that expense to myself when it's mainly for curiosity's sake, even though I love numbers ad data of all types, lol.
IMO people usually over-exaggerate the difference between regular and premium without doing the math (not accusing you, just sayin'... most people). Note: all of the numbers below are backed up with data that I can cite sources for, if you don't believe me. (rules)
I currently drive about 13,000 miles per year, and I expect that to go up to 14k this year
My current average mpg for the mz5 is 24.98 mpg. This is tracked using actual miles traveled and gallons pumped - vehicle computers are inaccurate and almost always overestimate the mpg. i.e. don't trust what your car is self-reporting to you.
The current difference in price between regular and premium in my area is $0.319. The difference has been under $0.30 the last two years, and recently spiked slightly to ~$0.32, but we'll use $0.32 (source: US Energy Information Administration You can graph the info on the webpage, or download it in .xls form and manipulate it yourself.)
14,000 miles at 24.98mpg = 560.4 gallons
560.4 gallons at $0.32 extra for premium = $179.34.
So it costs me an extra $179 per year to use premium (about $15 per month, or $3.45 per week). I'll gladly pay $179 in fuel for 10hp. Some people might not.
As you mention, it's not unusual for an NA tune to actually improve fuel mileage and gain power at the same time. Obviously better mileage would reduce this $179 figure.
We'll see if I have the NA tune on the car long enough to collect enough data (large enough sample size) to judge the tuned NA mpg, before I go FI.
I would love to be able to provide dyno plots before/after (I also agree about the area under the curve part), but I can't justify that expense to myself when it's mainly for curiosity's sake, even though I love numbers ad data of all types, lol.
IMO people usually over-exaggerate the difference between regular and premium without doing the math (not accusing you, just sayin'... most people). Note: all of the numbers below are backed up with data that I can cite sources for, if you don't believe me. (rules)
I currently drive about 13,000 miles per year, and I expect that to go up to 14k this year
My current average mpg for the mz5 is 24.98 mpg. This is tracked using actual miles traveled and gallons pumped - vehicle computers are inaccurate and almost always overestimate the mpg. i.e. don't trust what your car is self-reporting to you.
The current difference in price between regular and premium in my area is $0.319. The difference has been under $0.30 the last two years, and recently spiked slightly to ~$0.32, but we'll use $0.32 (source: US Energy Information Administration You can graph the info on the webpage, or download it in .xls form and manipulate it yourself.)
14,000 miles at 24.98mpg = 560.4 gallons
560.4 gallons at $0.32 extra for premium = $179.34.
So it costs me an extra $179 per year to use premium (about $15 per month, or $3.45 per week). I'll gladly pay $179 in fuel for 10hp. Some people might not.
As you mention, it's not unusual for an NA tune to actually improve fuel mileage and gain power at the same time. Obviously better mileage would reduce this $179 figure.
We'll see if I have the NA tune on the car long enough to collect enough data (large enough sample size) to judge the tuned NA mpg, before I go FI.
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