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Thread: 2019 Mazda CX-5 vs. 2019 Toyota RAV4 (Car&Driver)

  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by markjenn View Post
    I'm sorta in the market, so I test drove a 2019 RAV4 Hybrid in XLE trim back-to-back with ah 2019 CX-5 GT-R. I have to be honest and say I was more impressed with the Toyota drivetrain - the hybrid setup just seemed smoother and more refined with a little more power when you really romped on it. The CX-5 example I drove seemed less smooth and coarser than the non-turbos I've driven, although the extra power was nice. Maybe I was driving a green car that would smooth out later.

    Very enamored with the HUD in the CX-5. This is super-cool technology and anything that keeps you eyes up and on the road seems like a huge win. If I get a CX-5, it will have the HUD.

    The interior was a win for the CX-5. The RAV4 was harder to get in/out of and my wife seemed particularly bothered by the interior - she thought it looked cheap. I was Okay with it.

    Since the wife and I aren't in agreement, we'll stay on the sidelines and see what the tide brings in. But I have to say that I'm starting to think my next car will be hybrid or maybe even pure electric. I love motoring away from a stop with electric torque, no engine noise, no gear changes.....just smooth thrust. Toyota's hybrid systems are really nice and super fuel efficient - the RAV4 hybrid ratings are 40 mpg combined.

    - Mark
    If I were you, I'd buy the RAV Hybrid. You seem kinda torn, and over 10mpg one way or the other seems like a deal clincher to me.

  2. #182
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    So what's the long-term cost of ownership for hybrids?

    Do they [in general] have unique/known maintenance or reliability issues?

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avoidin Deer View Post
    So what's the long-term cost of ownership for hybrids?

    Do they [in general] have unique/known maintenance or reliability issues?
    I would say a Hybrid would pay for its maintenance from its fuel savings. (not true for only highway driving). This holds true for California and some states with expensive fuel and comes real close in TX where fuel is cheap.
    Maintenance usually is low due to fact that most wear occurs at low speed stop and go where electric motor lifts most of the weight or assists, due to regen braking and the fact that electric components are reliable.

    In terms of reliability most of the volume Toyota models are good - Prius, RX450h, 330h, ES300h, Avalon, Camry, CT200h - I would avoid HS250h as it was low volume. Most Hondas with IMA had a high failure rate of batteries though modern Hondas with Earth dreams seems fairly reliable. Ford had Escape and Fusion which are good for all generations except the latest which is not out yet though the Fusion is an awful place to be at highway speeds - it does have a Platinum trim which is almost a Lincoln and can be found cheap in the used market. No idea about Volvo / GM / Hyundai / BMW / Kia hybrids and their reliability. Mazda is bringing out a hybrid in 2020-21 and has confirmed Diesel hybrids though these are not coming States side mostly.

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  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by markjenn View Post
    I'm sorta in the market, so I test drove a 2019 RAV4 Hybrid in XLE trim back-to-back with ah 2019 CX-5 GT-R. I have to be honest and say I was more impressed with the Toyota drivetrain - the hybrid setup just seemed smoother and more refined with a little more power when you really romped on it. The CX-5 example I drove seemed less smooth and coarser than the non-turbos I've driven, although the extra power was nice. Maybe I was driving a green car that would smooth out later.

    Very enamored with the HUD in the CX-5. This is super-cool technology and anything that keeps you eyes up and on the road seems like a huge win. If I get a CX-5, it will have the HUD.

    The interior was a win for the CX-5. The RAV4 was harder to get in/out of and my wife seemed particularly bothered by the interior - she thought it looked cheap. I was Okay with it.

    Since the wife and I aren't in agreement, we'll stay on the sidelines and see what the tide brings in. But I have to say that I'm starting to think my next car will be hybrid or maybe even pure electric. I love motoring away from a stop with electric torque, no engine noise, no gear changes.....just smooth thrust. Toyota's hybrid systems are really nice and super fuel efficient - the RAV4 hybrid ratings are 40 mpg combined.

    - Mark
    Toyota's hybrid systems are relatively weak on the electric part of the power delivery. For example a new Honda Insight can give you 50+ horses when pulling power from battery and above a 100 horses when the generator is powering the motor. Those numbers are far higher than Toyota Corolla hybrid which is same class. The Honda hybrids can remain purely electric driven till 42 mph whereas Toyotas can't.
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  5. #185
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    Interesting.

    Thanks for that.

    So the spread between the price of gas and the cost of electricity is pretty wide in California? I guess that's always at risk of market conditions and the latest activist cause.

    I don't know a lot about the construct of the electric drive train (brushless motors, etc). It's fascinating to see them shove that (and the batteries) AND an internal combustion engine (with its gas tank) into a passenger car.

  6. #186
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    Arrow 2019 Mazda CX-5 vs. 2019 Toyota RAV4 (Car&Driver)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaps View Post
    Toyota's hybrid systems are relatively weak on the electric part of the power delivery. For example a new Honda Insight can give you 50+ horses when pulling power from battery and above a 100 horses when the generator is powering the motor. Those numbers are far higher than Toyota Corolla hybrid which is same class. The Honda hybrids can remain purely electric driven till 42 mph whereas Toyotas can't.
    Here's the specs on 2019 RAV4 Hybrid:

    219 combined system net hp
    Multi-electric motor assist with power output of 118 hp, 149 lb.-ft., 650V maximum electric motor voltage and 244.8V sealed Nickel-Metal Hydride (Ni-MH) traction battery


    Sounded like 2019 RAV4 Hybrid has pretty good power and Toyota offers RAV4 XSE Hybrid the only model in the RAV4 lineups with sport suspension.

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    Yeah, if I was to get the Rav4, it would be the XSE.

    It seemed a little faster than the CX-5 turbo to me, but that may have something to do with the way it accelerates initially with the electric torque. I think one road test said they were about the same 0-60.

    Toyota hybrid systems have been generally reliable, especially the Prius systems. But the Rav4 is a new system in 2019 where the rear wheels are only electrically driven, so there might be some opportunity for new gremlins and customer beta testing.

    - Mark
    Last edited by markjenn; 06-12-2019 at 01:47 AM.

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unobtanium View Post
    If I were you, I'd buy the RAV Hybrid. You seem kinda torn, and over 10mpg one way or the other seems like a deal clincher to me.
    I would lean that way, but my wife really doesn't like the styling and how hard it is to get in/out. I'm ok with the creased styling and don't notice getting in/out being much different. Most of the road tests of the Rav4 say the interior is pretty spacious, but it just doesn't "fit" my wife. And she's much smaller than me. Go figure.

    - Mark

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by markjenn View Post
    Yeah, if I was to get the Rav4, it would be the XSE.

    It seemed a little faster than the CX-5 turbo to me, but that may have something to do with the way it accelerates initially with the electric torque. I think one road test said they were about the same 0-60.

    Toyota hybrid systems have been generally reliable, especially the Prius systems. But the Rav4 is a new system in 2019 where the rear wheels are only electrically driven, so there might be some opportunity for new gremlins and customer beta testing.

    - Mark
    The cx5 turbo is significantly faster, it just feels much more linear.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unobtanium View Post
    The cx5 turbo is significantly faster, it just feels much more linear.
    ^^ Agree. Motor Trend got 7.5 sec's and others say less than 8 sec's to 60. That's CR-V territory.

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig cx-5 View Post
    ^^ Agree. Motor Trend got 7.5 sec's and others say less than 8 sec's to 60. That's CR-V territory.
    Yeah, without the CRV's engine problems, and banging out 10mpg more, roughly. CRV is just a total non-starter at this point. It's for honda fanboi's only pretty much.

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by yrwei52 View Post
    Here's the specs on 2019 RAV4 Hybrid:

    219 combined system net hp
    Multi-electric motor assist with power output of 118 hp, 149 lb.-ft., 650V maximum electric motor voltage and 244.8V sealed Nickel-Metal Hydride (Ni-MH) traction battery


    Sounded like 2019 RAV4 Hybrid has pretty good power and Toyota offers RAV4 XSE Hybrid the only model in the RAV4 lineups with sport suspension.
    The Honda insight has 129/196 lb ft from its electric motor. But this is not what I am talking about. This is the electric power when the engine is acting as a generator. So this power is all you get. But when the engine is being assisted by battery-you get your Max hp numbers. Rav4 has a 1Kwh usable battery. So engine+battery~219 hp. Engine is 176 hp. So its on 40ish hp assist from battery. Thats the same as insight which is a smaller lighter car as compared to Rav4

  13. #193
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    Arrow 2019 Mazda CX-5 vs. 2019 Toyota RAV4 (Car&Driver)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaps View Post
    The Honda insight has 129/196 lb ft from its electric motor. But this is not what I am talking about. This is the electric power when the engine is acting as a generator. So this power is all you get. But when the engine is being assisted by battery-you get your Max hp numbers. Rav4 has a 1Kwh usable battery. So engine+battery~219 hp. Engine is 176 hp. So its on 40ish hp assist from battery. Thats the same as insight which is a smaller lighter car as compared to Rav4
    Thanks for explanation as I personally don't know too much about hybrid and EV. One thing which is interesting to me is when markjenn mentioned above that the RAV4 Hybrid AWD is a new system in 2019 where the rear wheels are only electrically driven.

  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by yrwei52 View Post
    Thanks for explanation as I personally don't know too much about hybrid and EV. One thing which is interesting to me is when markjenn mentioned above that the RAV4 Hybrid AWD is a new system in 2019 where the rear wheels are only electrically driven.
    Correct. Kindof a turnoff to me, that.

  15. #195
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    SkyActiv-X Hybrid may arrive around 2022 I'm assuming. Zoom-Zoom or...Zoom-Zap.

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