Why am I pinging???

[kicker22705]

i'll return tomorrow,, as i didn't install em yet. thanks for the heads up fellas.

 

[K. Soze]

Don't do it.

ZFR6F-11 <---Straight from NGK's website. These are the copper V-Power's. They are also extended reach. All you have to do is change the gap.

 

[03.5MSP]

I'm not sure of the full details but the extended reach plugs are not recommended. Steve gave a thourogh explanation as to why. Here is the link to the thread.
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123631485

 

[K. Soze]

But isn't that what's in the car stock?

EDIT: Hmmm, interesting read.

 

[Maxx Mazda]

Oops lol! I thought the ones he bought were the irridiums.

Statement retracted.!

 

[K. Soze]

That thread has me thinking about not using extended reach.

I thought that's what we had on our cars from the factory. I don't get it.(eek2)

 

[Gasological]

Wait, that thread said the extended reach WAS recommended. Or was that just for N/A folks?

 

[terbow]

The stock msp ones are extended reach.

 

[K. Soze]

That's what I thought. I don't get why the extended reach aren't that good for our application (or maybe that's wrong, iono).

 

[kicker22705]

okay i pulled the old BKR7E out, and they looked pretty good. even tho i could head audible pinging multiple times while running these, they still show no signs of detonation. they look rather normal. i'll take some hi-res pics when i get a chance.

i ran the BKR6E, and so far it appears to have helped. i didn't hear any audible pinging before 12psi. at 12psi-13, it begins to creep back, but not as early, loud, or consistent as before.

so far they look to be working better than the BKR7E for me.

Another thing i noticed was, my AFR dropped quite a bit w/ these plugs. I used to run about 10.8-11.2 from 3k rpm, but now i'm running about 12.2 down to 11.2 from 3k rpm. I think if i richen it up in the middle it should help further.

this is with a new 1/2 tank of gas, after basically using up the little bit of 110/93 mix i had left over from last night. there is a possibility the small 110/93 remnant could have helped.

i'll make another update after i refill the tank.

 

[Gasological]

Hope you can figure it out.

 

[terbow]

Hope you can figure it out.

Believe me, me too. Ive been stressing about this behind the scenes for a while. Wish i could help more.

 

[kicker22705]

thanks guys, im hopeful we'll figure it out. we got some of the brightest protege minds on this thread/forum so hopefully its just a matter of time.

 

[Kooldino]

Kool most of those values in the 300 load range wont be hit so thats n/a. My car doesnt start to really make power untill 4k.



I honestly don't understand the logic behind going to a hotter plug with knock problems. please explain that to me?

.....


I ran 7's in my protege from 3.5k on!

Colder plugs don't idle as well and are more prone to fouling. And need to be changed more often. Also they aren't good for cold starts.

I'm gonna guess you fouled one or two. Or your gap was too high. Your car will idle worse with colder plugs but shouldn't run bad

I agree Dana, I'm not calling bulls***, cause you know your stuff, but with knock generally a colder plug is the way to go. I had some ping with BKR5E's and went to the 7E's and it went away. (I only had the 5E's in for a day cause I dropped one of my new ones and smashed it so I had to use them for a day until I got a replacement.)

Ok, first of all, if he's detonating or misfiring at the boost level he is at, it's NOT because his plugs are too hot. Especially if its already a 7 series plug. You don't need an 8 series plug to run a measley 11psi. I've run 20psi on my 6s with no issue.

Second of all, just because a 5 series plug was too hot and you jumped to a 7 plug doesn't mean that a 6 won't do the trick. You can't say 6s won't work just because you run a 7.

Furthermore, I've never even heard of any of the higher powered proteges running anything colder than a 7.

Like I said, I ran 7s myself when I first boosted the car, and it was generally fine, but I'd run into issues here and there at the higher RPMs. Someone suggested going to a 6, as they thought I might have been blowing out the spark, misfiring from being too cold, etc, and I gave it a whirl. The car ran a lot better after that. The 7s that I pulled out were not fouled.

I've worked on countless boosted proteges and I've had the best luck with 6 series NGK copper plugs. Personally, I prefer the extended reach, as it runs a tad smoother, however it's more "dangerous" since it's similar to adding a little bit of timing.

 

[Kooldino]

Some people just like to think the answer always needs to be complex. Keep it simple stupid is a great motto. At $1.99 a plug what does he have to lose?

Exactly.

 

[Kooldino]

I'm not saying that he shouldn't try the plugs, I agree he should. My question is why this might ring true if it works...

Instead of sitting around and discussing heat range theory, why not just have the guy spend $10 and 5 minutes swapping out the plugs to see if it actually matters?

 

[Kooldino]

okay i pulled the old BKR7E out, and they looked pretty good. even tho i could head audible pinging multiple times while running these, they still show no signs of detonation. they look rather normal. i'll take some hi-res pics when i get a chance.

i ran the BKR6E, and so far it appears to have helped. i didn't hear any audible pinging before 12psi. at 12psi-13, it begins to creep back, but not as early, loud, or consistent as before.

so far they look to be working better than the BKR7E for me.

Go figure.

I have a feeling the plugs may not be your only issue, but hell, it's a start. When will you have something that will allow you to monitor knock?

Another thing i noticed was, my AFR dropped quite a bit w/ these plugs. I used to run about 10.8-11.2 from 3k rpm, but now i'm running about 12.2 down to 11.2 from 3k rpm. I think if i richen it up in the middle it should help further.

So it leaned you out? Interesting.

this is with a new 1/2 tank of gas, after basically using up the little bit of 110/93 mix i had left over from last night. there is a possibility the small 110/93 remnant could have helped.

Oh, I'm sure it did.

i'll make another update after i refill the tank.

Aye, keep us posted. Try the timing suggestion I posted earlier too.

 

[JDM Sam]

1 easy possibility affecting the tune. Have you checked your timing belt and timing?

I noticed you have long rods. You should read this. You should probably adjust your timing map up some as suggested.
http://www.stahlheaders.com/Lit_Rod%20Length.htm

 

[TXMazdaSpeeder]

Hey dana i noticed you said u went to extended reach due to blowing out the spark, for some reason after i installed my nology hotwires my car ended up doing the same thing, i went to an ngk v-power racing which the threaded area around the diode is longer, is that the same thing as extended reach?

 

[kicker22705]

Go figure.

I have a feeling the plugs may not be your only issue, but hell, it's a start. When will you have something that will allow you to monitor knock?



So it leaned you out? Interesting.



Oh, I'm sure it did.



Aye, keep us posted. Try the timing suggestion I posted earlier too.

it appears the J&S will not be available for another 2-3 months, which is what i planned on using. so the only way i'll be able to monitor knock will be examining my plugs, since i still haven't gotten my EGT gauge from warranty work.

i'm not sure i understand what you meant when you said hard code the timing by rpm. do you want me to set the timing based on what i saw on my datalog by rpm, or run it at stactic after i zero out the load map?

1 easy possibility affecting the tune. Have you checked your timing belt and timing?

I noticed you have long rods. You should read this. You should probably adjust your timing map up some as suggested.
http://www.stahlheaders.com/Lit_Rod%20Length.htm

this is good stuff. the part that caught my attention was

"Piston travels from BDC to 90-o BTDC faster than short rod. Goes slower from 90-o BTDC to TDC--may change ign timing requirement versus short rod as piston spends more time at top. However; if flame travel were too fast, detonation could occur."

do you think my compression is too high even w/ the 8.5:1 pistons b/c of the rods? when i ran my compression test when i first got the motor it read 200-215psi versus my stock motor which was 190s.

right now it reads 185, but i think the drop in pressure my be due to the fact my tester might be off/broken. i dropped it on the floor by accident one day, and ever since it read lower. i never really worried too much about it b/c all 4 cyclinders were the same. i'll borrow a friend's and try again.

how do i check the timing on the protege? my friend and i tried to do this but we couldn't figure out where to point the timing light.