Problems with stand alones

[servoeyes]

Don't forget...Pineapple Racing and Unichip are releaseing a "Tuner computer" in conjunction with Corksport. It's supposed to be a piggy back type deal...you don't control the maps and settings yourself, though, it seems. Doesn't look like they're making huge gains either...25hp on a 3 psi increase, but they don't say what other mods they had. 3 psi should get you right around 24whp even without the computer. Hopefully everything will turn out good, though...

Decent price for that set-up as well...Corksport is really stepping to the plate for us protege guys as well. I'm very impressed.

Anywho...on topic, good info in that link and in here. Bottom line, is people will get what they want and what *works* for them. Then if it doesn't they'll b**** and moan that nobody warned them...it's nice to see threads like this available to inform the uninformed, much like myself! Thanks!

 

[70]

From my understanding, the thing Corksport is setting up was for the MSP only.

No other real support on that for other versions of the Protege. (fight)

 

[MPNick]

Did you guys take the certified AEM course that AEM holds teaching tuning on the AEM?

I know its a very capable computer but many groups of people in the s2000 and Supra camp have had bad luck with these units and lack of support. I am not bashing your product just gaining insight. I know that the civic and 240 boys love them from what I hear. Hope it works well on the protege (nana)

We had to take a day training course from Perfect Power to become dealers two years ago.


Thanks again


Later...........Nick

 

[MPNick]

Why even start trouble... this thread was a bad idea.

Stand alones are great for race cars. owever when they are installed on street cars there can be alot of problems. Why is it bad to here about problem that people have with some systems? This forum is here to help inform people. I feel that I sell one of the best stand alones you can buy. I never talked about it much because I do not feel the stand alones are a good way to go for 98% of the people here. However with all the talk about stand alones lately I felt it would be the right thing to do. Now people can ask more questions about them before they pay good money and run into problems like the rest of the world does.

Paul you have the best setup on your car right now. You need to get it set up right and you would be able to do all of the tuning that you would need to do.


Thanks again


Later..........Nick

 

[MPNick]

Actually it takes a about a month for someone like me to get it up to par and probably 1 week for a very good tuner that works on this daily to do so. Wiring also is lengthy. Cost for most standalones are between 1200-2000

Updated list!

Pros-
You can run higher boost
You make way more power
Car runs great! no inconsistincies
You control everything...no hacking or tricking

Cons-
Cold start is a b**** ESPECIALLY if you live in cold climates
Fuel consumption goes out the window
Its a b**** to wire up and tune
More expensive than a piggy

Is the $1,200.00 to $2,000.00 including the install and dyno tune?

Why is cold start such a problem with some systems? I have seen a few Mazda people having problem with cold starting also. I know the EVO guy never got is cold start problem fixed, even after all of the upgrades that AEM did to his computer.

Fuel consumption is always a problem with bigger injectors. Running rich can cost you a engine almost as fast as running lean.

You always have trade offs with any stand alone.


Thanks again


Later............Nick

 

[70]

...(snip)
Why is cold start such a problem with some systems? I have seen a few Mazda people having problem with cold starting also. I know the EVO guy never got is cold start problem fixed, even after all of the upgrades that AEM did to his computer.
...(snip)...
Thanks again


Later............Nick

I don't think the cold start issue is entirely the software, but the tuning. Like it mentions in that thread, sometimes it can take 3 weeks or 3 days to get a stand alone fully tuned, including cold start.

 

[Equinox]

from how it reads, it gives me the feeling to not trust the AEM tuned stand alone, and don't do business through them, luckily the AEM for the protege is neither.

 

[Kooldino]

Hey Craig, Why dont you mods ask Enry to get an Engine management section open.
We have over 5 units we are tuning for the Protege and future mazda projects, like the RX8,3, and 6
Aem is only one of the units. More are to come.

I brought that up to them Sunday night. They'll probably do it soon.

 

[MPNick]

from how it reads, it gives me the feeling to not trust the AEM tuned stand alone, and don't do business through them, luckily the AEM for the protege is neither.

The AEM you are talking about will have no support at all from AEM. The AEM has never been run on the Protege. Any problems that you have will be your problem. You will be on your own. Even the people who are talking the system up have never used the system and more then likely not even taken the training course from AEM.


Thanks again

Later.........Nick

 

[Kooldino]

my car works...that help? I can take a video of it moving if you need it lol

Go for it, just to show people how it runs.

 

[LinuxRacr]

The AEM you are talking about will have no support at all from AEM. The AEM has never been run on the Protege. Any problems that you have will be your problem. You will be on your own. Even the people who are talking the system up have never used the system and more then likely not even taken the training course from AEM.


Thanks again

Later.........Nick

In the other thread they said that they were supposedly were going to be taking the AEM course in the near future.

 

[MPNick]

In the other thread they said that they were supposedly were going to be taking the AEM course in the near future.

That is fine, but going to class does not mean you come out of it a tuner. It takes years of tuner and years of time on the dyno to learn. How does anyone know if the system will work on the Mazda. There was alot of talk about AFC's a while back along with chips. Things happen, we tried things before and they did not work. I look at things this way. You have much bigger car markets out there then the Mazda. Markets that AEM can sell tons of system for. If they cannot get the big market cars running right how can people come here that have never even used the system and talk about how great it is for the Mazda.

Before you post how great it works should you at the very least have used on a car before? How do you market a product that you have never used and then offer advice on it. Is the not like putting the cart before the horse?

On the EVO thread you are talking about tuners that are well known and they have used all types of systems. If they can have problems with the system what will happen here when the seller has not even install one yet?


Thanks again


Later...Nick

 

[perfworks]

We are already discussing this in the Admin section.

Thanks pat.
Now it looks like I have alot of catching up to do with this thread. It grew since last night. I will get back to some interesting posts in a minute

 

[perfworks]

Why even start trouble... this thread was a bad idea.

LOL, Paul this is a good point. But some need to be educated. As you know we will do that very soon.

 

[perfworks]

Perf I had the same thing on my mind as well I just started a thread in the admins section about a engine managment section.....

Perf who will be tuning the AEM EMS. Did you guys take the certified AEM course that AEM holds teaching tuning on the AEM?

I know its a very capable computer but many groups of people in the s2000 and Supra camp have had bad luck with these units and lack of support. I am not bashing your product just gaining insight. I know that the civic and 240 boys love them from what I hear. Hope it works well on the protege (nana)

I will be tuning it along with Andy Wagner. The AEM certification course will be held in April. This only means that we will be a nationaly recognized tuner in the designated area. AEM doesn't pick anyone off the street. We have tuned several of these and other units. We qualified for the certification and will be attending in april. They dont teach you anything. You eed to have knowledge in the field.
At the seminar they evaluate you. They will go over many items pertaining only to their system.

With the older version .94 software there were some issues. Now with v1.03 they are all but eliminated. It is always a learning process. BUT keep in mind the unit we will be offering is not a standalone only. It has every capable feature of one. BUT we have come up with a very clever unit for the future all in one package.
Thanks Terry

 

[perfworks]

here is the thread
http://www.msprotege.com/vbb300/showthread.php?t=50918

As far as standalones having issues, I think I am a good candidate to awnser this since I have a microtech.

Here are the pros and cons.
Pros-
You can run higher boost
You make way more power
Car runs great! no inconsistincies
You control everything...no hacking or tricking

Cons-
Cold start is a b**** ESPECIALLY if you live in cold climates
Fuel consumption goes out the window
Its a b**** to wire up and tune

I know Perfs system will supposedly be plug and play so you can scratch one off rom the cons

The only con is the time tuning. Otherwise IT is completely PnP. The enduser will get all the tuning ready for them. You dont have to wire in anything. No need to splice and follow horrible directions with no pics, Just Plug it in.
The cold start on may units is a b****. NOT on the AEM. Even in the cold days here in jersey the tuning for the both the hondas and Evos we did were right on the money. IF you know what your doing and implimenting the boxes thru preposed calculations you are on the right track. There are some people here that really dont know what Andy and I have gone thru to be fluid in this department. We will host many of dyno days in the future. We will also go across the country to various citys to tune our products. That way the enduser has real customer service to look foward to. It is easy to say what you want on the open forum. Our product and expertise will show in the end over the rest of the products. The consumer will be the ultimate reporter of success. That is what we strive for. NOT pissing contests.
BTW I do look foward to meeting with you at some point Terry. We have alot to discuss.

 

[perfworks]

I think what really needs to be looked at when it comes to stand alone..is cost to the consumer..and tuning!

For most people..that only wanna run some more boost...and stand alone..will not seem to be a viable solution..why b/c you spend more than $1k on the stand alone..and close to $1k on the install and tuning..

but for those people who look for balls out power..a stand alone is a good investment..if you have that kind of $$$ laying around!

Chas

This is a good post for the most part. But the majority of tunes required for most standalones are this much. The AEM provided by TPW and Wagner Is completely pretuned. Similar to your stock ECU. That way you just Plug it in and drive.
So I guess you could say that the enduser has already saved over a "G" When they go thru us.

 

[perfworks]

Don't forget...Pineapple Racing and Unichip are releaseing a "Tuner computer" in conjunction with Corksport. It's supposed to be a piggy back type deal...you don't control the maps and settings yourself, though, it seems. Doesn't look like they're making huge gains either...25hp on a 3 psi increase, but they don't say what other mods they had. 3 psi should get you right around 24whp even without the computer. Hopefully everything will turn out good, though...

Decent price for that set-up as well...Corksport is really stepping to the plate for us protege guys as well. I'm very impressed.

Anywho...on topic, good info in that link and in here. Bottom line, is people will get what they want and what *works* for them. Then if it doesn't they'll b**** and moan that nobody warned them...it's nice to see threads like this available to inform the uninformed, much like myself! Thanks!

The majority of Piggybacks are only as good as the stock mapping. They use generic mapping that is not relative to most FI setups out there. Tuning the car to run pig rich doesnt make things work right. You need to control the entire fuel and igntion curve precisely. That way you rewrite it for your specific needs. So at every load and speed site you are on the mark rather than guessing thru various input modifications thru the stock ECU

 

[perfworks]

Is the $1,200.00 to $2,000.00 including the install and dyno tune?

Why is cold start such a problem with some systems? I have seen a few Mazda people having problem with cold starting also. I know the EVO guy never got is cold start problem fixed, even after all of the upgrades that AEM did to his computer.

Fuel consumption is always a problem with bigger injectors. Running rich can cost you a engine almost as fast as running lean.

You always have trade offs with any stand alone.


Thanks again


Later............Nick

The Evo tuned with an AEM has absolutely no issues. We have tuned many of them already in the 1 degree weather we had. It is a matter of tuning only.
Fuel consumption is NOT a problem either. We run a fully prepped closed loop program which gives you better gas mileage then you get from your stock ECU
There is no difference between running 280 cc and runniing 780 cc. As long as the tuner knows how to scale, compute fuel pressure guidlines and impedance there isnt any issues. The only people having issues with larger injectors are those running piggybacks where the MAF voltage is manipulated. That is a very crude way to tune this particular vehicle.

 

[perfworks]

I don't think the cold start issue is entirely the software, but the tuning. Like it mentions in that thread, sometimes it can take 3 weeks or 3 days to get a stand alone fully tuned, including cold start.

Completely correct post here.