MS3 vs. Focus RS

[El Speed3]

Hey everyone...

Ive been looking at several magazines, car shows and so on... how come no one has ever pitted the MS3 vs the RS??

MS3 is definitely underpowered (273 vs 300) but c'mon, we've all seen how the Speed is always compared to the GTI, which, in my opinion is not a completely fair comparison power-wise (200 for the GTI).

Im not trying to see it as a full comparison, just in terms of performance...

Recently, having looked at claims from Corksport, if you fit their SRI, its going to take your car up to 285ft lb and 264whp (264 / .85 = 310 hp [I know its probably not the most accurate conversion but its pretty close...]). Thats RS territory (stock figures are 325ft lb and 255whp [300 hp]).

Any thoughts? I really hope to see this comparison, even more so, because Im a strong believer that VW pretty much pays every magazine to declare it a winner all the time...

 

[coololddude]

If people factor in the cost of the MS3, it would never lose a comp.

 

[dmention7]

I guess I haven't been keeping up on magazines outside the US, but as soon as (if/when??) the RS hits US shores, I would guess it will be one of the first cars the RS gets pitted against in comparos, along with the SRT-4 and Cobalt SS.

And I agree, VW must be handing out free hookers to all the auto journalists for all those comparos where the GTI comes out on top.

 

[ottawaP5]

And I agree, VW must be handing out free hookers to all the auto journalists for all those comparos where the GTI comes out on top.

VW did not give me a free hooker when I traded my MS3 for a GTI...I should inquire about this!

When auto journalists evaluate a car, it's not only based on the power output. It's about the overall package, like fit/finish, comfort, handling, etc. The MS3 only has one thing better than the GTI and that is power. That is why the GTI is winning comparisons.

When you drive the 2 cars side by side, the MS3 feels like a cheap car with a big engine, while the GTI feels more solid, and way more expensive. It's also way more fun in the twisties. I have to say it's the best car I've ever owned.

 

[wahbam]

I agree with you, that the MS3 is better than the GTI in power but also in price too! Other than that, GTI is better.

VW did not give me a free hooker when I traded my MS3 for a GTI...I should inquire about this!

When auto journalists evaluate a car, it's not only based on the power output. It's about the overall package, like fit/finish, comfort, handling, etc. The MS3 only has one thing better than the GTI and that is power. That is why the GTI is winning comparisons.

When you drive the 2 cars side by side, the MS3 feels like a cheap car with a big engine, while the GTI feels more solid, and way more expensive. It's also way more fun in the twisties. I have to say it's the best car I've ever owned.

 

[GoSpeed3]

VW did not give me a free hooker when I traded my MS3 for a GTI...I should inquire about this!

When auto journalists evaluate a car, it's not only based on the power output. It's about the overall package, like fit/finish, comfort, handling, etc. The MS3 only has one thing better than the GTI and that is power. That is why the GTI is winning comparisons.

When you drive the 2 cars side by side, the MS3 feels like a cheap car with a big engine, while the GTI feels more solid, and way more expensive. It's also way more fun in the twisties. I have to say it's the best car I've ever owned.

if you drive a gti why are you even still on this forum? actually i dont care. lol

 

[ottawaP5]

I agree with you, that the MS3 is better than the GTI in power but also in price too! Other than that, GTI is better.

Yep you are right about the price....you get a lot of bang for the buck with the mazda for sure. Here in Canada both cars are priced the same. I think the GTI significantly more expensive in the US.

 

[ottawaP5]

if you drive a gti why are you even still on this forum? actually i dont care. lol

I've been lurking on these forums since 2003, kinda hard to let go lol.

I don't hate the MS3, I think it's a damn fine machine if you want to make some nice power.

 

[buttons]

I like the GTI a lot, though id buy a 2010 speed3 over a GTI.

I am pretty sure the Speed 3 would out handle the GTI on a roadcoarse / autocross as well. VW have always been a tad heavy and soft on the suspension. Unless the GTI has really stepped it up lately...

I really miss my 02 VW Passat 1.8T though. what a fantastic commuter car.

 

[RODSCALIP5]

VW did not give me a free hooker when I traded my MS3 for a GTI...I should inquire about this!

When auto journalists evaluate a car, it's not only based on the power output. It's about the overall package, like fit/finish, comfort, handling, etc. The MS3 only has one thing better than the GTI and that is power. That is why the GTI is winning comparisons.

When you drive the 2 cars side by side, the MS3 feels like a cheap car with a big engine, while the GTI feels more solid, and way more expensive. It's also way more fun in the twisties. I have to say it's the best car I've ever owned.

Do you a 6speed or manual?

I considered trading in my MS3 for a 2010 GTI but after test driving it, it felt boring. Granted I test drove the DSG. The VW offers better options than the MS3(2007), but when you compare it to a 2010 MS3 it just about even unless you want HID and Sunroof.

After test driving both I have decided to go with another MS3, the GTI was just too boring for me.

 

[ottawaP5]

Do you a 6speed or manual?

I considered trading in my MS3 for a 2010 GTI but after test driving it, it felt boring. Granted I test drove the DSG. The VW offers better options than the MS3(2007), but when you compare it to a 2010 MS3 it just about even unless you want HID and Sunroof.

After test driving both I have decided to go with another MS3, the GTI was just too boring for me.

I have a manual 6 speed. I've never tried the DSG, I'd be curious to try it.

Yeah these are 2 different cars...the GTI is more about refinement while the MS3 is more about raw power.

 

[RODSCALIP5]

I have a manual 6 speed. I've never tried the DSG, I'd be curious to try it.

Yeah these are 2 different cars...the GTI is more about refinement while the MS3 is more about raw power.

I wonder if my experience would have been different had I test drove the 6 speed. Either way I'm happy with the 2nd gen, imo its a big improvement over the 1st.

 

[ottawaP5]

I wonder if my experience would have been different had I test drove the 6 speed. Either way I'm happy with the 2nd gen, imo its a big improvement over the 1st.

You would have been more involved with the driving experience, that is for sure. Either way you can't go wrong.

 

[Bobcat]

I have a 2008 GTI with DSG, love the car, - just bought my daugher ( well, me and the bank) a 3, GT 2.5 4 door. After driving both, I'm happy as hell to have both in my garage!
They are nice cars, and I'm looking forward to seeing how the 3 does on mpg, and how the first oil change goes (I do my own) - the GTI is typical over engineered German that you just learn to love....

 

[08 Max]

I would add that the handling of the Speed is vastly superior to my two mkIV GTI's and the MkV I test drove before the Speed 3. You can drive the GTI hard and it gives you a more refined ride but for outright handling they aren't in the same territory. High speed used to upset my MKIV's on rolly polly roads...the Speed is rock solid.

 

[mrcardio79]

I've driven both gen Speed3's and the 2nd gen just felt like the slightly revised 1st gen in a different shell that it basically is albeit a bit slower. However, I did like the placement of the shifter and it seemed to handle imperfections in the road somewhat better. The GTI is just too slow period plus the clutch pedal is entirely too long. To say the ONLY thing the MS3 has on the GTI is power is ridiculous. The GTI might have a prettier dash and more refined ride, etc. but the speed3 has it beat where it counts in the sporting dept. Both cars can be modified; Im taking stock vs. stock.
Better acceleration, better handling, better chassis balance, better braking, better performance period. The reason the GTI wins in the latest comparison test is because Mazda screwed up with the 2nd gen MS3, it looks AWFUL. Im sorry if thats offensive to anybody but dont take it personal it just happens to be my opinion and the reason I think the reviewers ultimately give the overall win to the GTI. If there were a section for future predicted reliability we all know whod win that category.
I think the journalist reviewing the cars just couldnt get over the 2010 MS3s goofy grin, overall boy racer looks (hood scoop, massive flared fenders.) and cheapened / cheesy interior. The performance is basically the same; Road and Track recorded a 3:16.0 with the 1st Gen MS3 and a 3:16.2 with the 2nd Gen at VIR which are both way quicker than the GTIs 3:19.XX.
Im not saying that the GTI is a bad car but to state that the ONLY thing a speed3 has on a GTI is power is laughable at best. In reality the ONLY thing the GTI has on the speed3 is refinement which isnt what cars like the speed3 are about. Theyre about cheap / practical speed done right.

 

[skatethesea]

I dont know how this turned into the GTI vs MS3 thread. But I think the GTI would be better suited for the enthusiast that is slowly working his/her way into a SUV or MiniVan. It is a refined softer smoother ride. But a real enthusiast, with no care or real ride quality would go for the MS3. Its raw, harsh, loud, and immature. As for the MS3 vs RS. The RS is far superior in my opnion. The Top Gear review of it was awe inspiring. And the claims from Ford can be backed by its performance. But if you have been in the car scene for more than ten minutes you should already know that we get the short end of the stick when it comes to sport compact cars. The Accord Euro R. Civic Type R euro edition. THe Focus RS. Renault Scorpion. All ridiculously fun cars, none of which will ever touch the shores of America. We dont even get certain color schemes. Honda keeps its Moonrock color to itself. Canada keeps the White Mica for the Canadians and Japanese market. We are the bastardized brethren across the pond. Why? Cause we can afford to buy whatever we want and turn it into what we want.

 

[El Speed3]

As per the GTI comments, as previously stated, this isn't really about that, its about the RS vs the MS3, so back to topic...

I think I agree with you skate, that review is pretty good and sums up everything about the RS: amazing power, very good handling, extremely fun as well, and practical. But wouldnt you want to see how it performs against our cars?? The RS is almost certainly a better car... reviews everywhere say that its pretty much magical, no-one understands (except James May ) how that much power can be put through the front wheels but Ive never really seen any fair comparison for the MS3, thats always been pitted against the GTI, which as I said previously, is definitely a different type of car than the MS3. The closest thing is the RS, which no one cares to compare for some mysterious reason...

Weight between them is 3,272 lb (according to Yahoo!) for the MS3, and its 3,234 lb (according to Wikipedia) for the RS. How close is that????

Except for the power difference, which can be solved with a SRI/CAI as I previously demonstrated, and the slight weight difference, it would all come down to the handling of the cars and drivers error. It pretty much looks to me as a pretty perfect comparison PERFORMANCE-WISE, nothing else... oh well, I love it in red as well

I said it once, and Ill say it again, I would LOVE to see a proper comparison between these 2 cars. It would be the first review Ill gladly accept defeat.

And on the different cars available, yes, its a shame no one on this side of the world gets to drive such cars as the Civic Type R (Euro), Megane R26R, Integra Type R, Clio V6, etc. Its also a shame I couldnt get my MS3 in white as well, were stuck with the same colors as the US...

 

[skatethesea]

Okay that settles it. Everyone needs to throw down a couple grand and I will buy it and do the comparison. I will accept the responsibility and pain of owning two turbo FWD cars. It is going to suck, I know. So everyone just paypal me your next couple pay checks and I will have your comparison by July. I promise

 

[puredrive07]

Here's another fast hatch to throw in the mix, eventhough it's probably no where near the price bracket of the MS3; except for the base model at $24,700 (the sportier R-Design starts at $27,100). The Volvo C30 (2008-present), they are going to be releasing a special edition this summer completely modded out by the K-PAX Racing Team (227bhp to 280bhp).

Here is some more info about the specs:

Engine:
2.5L, 20-valve, turbocharged & intercooled in-line 5-cylinder

Standard Tune: 235 hp @ 5,100 rpm and 242 lbs-ft. @1,500 rpm
Track Tune: 280 hp @ 5,600 rpm and 290 lbs.ft. @ 2,250 rpm
K-PAX Racing custom-developed high-flow stainless-steel exhaust system

Drivetrain
Front wheel drive with close-ratio 6-speed manual transmission. K-PAX Racing poly-urethane engine mount

Suspension
K-PAX Racing-tuned suspension including springs, sway-bar and upper control arms

Brakes
K-PAX Racing performance brake pads

Wheels
K-PAX Racing-exclusive BBS 19" lightweight performance alloys

Tires
High performance Pirelli P-Zero Nero 225/35-19 summer tires

Warranty
Factory-matching 5-year/60,000-mile limited warranty

Each vehicle is individually numbered and entered into the K-PAX Performance Cars Registry including a letter of authenticity and emblems.


But if I had to choose between the MS3 & GTi, I would go with the MS3 at the end of the day, just from a financial stand point.

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