Double Din- DNX8120 vs. AVIC-Z3 vs. AVIC-F90BT
- Thread starter mspHtown
- Start date
Much of how well the bluetooth feature works/sounds will have less to do with the unit and more to do with the car. Keep in mind that the vast majority of cars that come with this feature from the factory are $60K+ Lexus', BMW's, etc. These cars have 100x the sound insulation that our Mazdas have so the amount of road noise is going to be drastically lessened. Couple that with the fact that many of us, myself included, choose to make our cars even LOUDER with things like motor mounts and exhaust and... yeah, unless I'm parked somewhere, I'm not calling anyone on mine. It'll sound like I'm in an underwater windtunnel on mars.
That's because it is a discontinued model, the bluetooth adapter is $180 (retail), the maps are on DVD's, and there is no ipod video control on the unit itself. Now I'm not saying it was a bad unit, but it is hard to compare brand new product pricing to a discontinued model.
I was responding to MSPHTown's post in which he said something to the effect of "the pioneer unit looks good (responding to my picture of the D3) but wishes it didn't have any bugs"
The fact that's discontinued is irrelevant since you'd have to be a fool to pay retail for virtually anything anyway. What the bluetooth adapter costing $180 (this too can be found for far less online) has anything to do with it I haven't a clue. As for it being dvd-based... I think we've tackled that by now! lol I'll admit, while it would be more ideal to control videos from my ipod using the actual unit itself... it's not really that big of a deal. I originally had the ipod hidden in the glove box. Because of this, I simply re-routed it to slide right into the spot below the cig lighter. It actually fits perfectly and, on the ultra rare occasion I feel like watching a video while driving, it's probably easier to control things from the ipod. Ironically, I wish you could control the MUSIC from the ipod. That's probably my only major gripe with the unit. Finding specific artists/songs amongst the millions of others is easy on an ipod... and can be challenging on the unit. But you figure out shortcuts so it's not that big a deal.
Lastly... it's not hard to compare brand new product pricing to discontinued models. Just do the necessary research and find the lowest price you can (from a reputable retailer) and make your decision. Just because something is 'discontinued' doesn't mean it's crap. In fact, that's often where the best bargains can be found.
The fact that's discontinued is irrelevant since you'd have to be a fool to pay retail for virtually anything anyway. What the bluetooth adapter costing $180 (this too can be found for far less online) has anything to do with it I haven't a clue. As for it being dvd-based... I think we've tackled that by now! lol I'll admit, while it would be more ideal to control videos from my ipod using the actual unit itself... it's not really that big of a deal. I originally had the ipod hidden in the glove box. Because of this, I simply re-routed it to slide right into the spot below the cig lighter. It actually fits perfectly and, on the ultra rare occasion I feel like watching a video while driving, it's probably easier to control things from the ipod. Ironically, I wish you could control the MUSIC from the ipod. That's probably my only major gripe with the unit. Finding specific artists/songs amongst the millions of others is easy on an ipod... and can be challenging on the unit. But you figure out shortcuts so it's not that big a deal.
Lastly... it's not hard to compare brand new product pricing to discontinued models. Just do the necessary research and find the lowest price you can (from a reputable retailer) and make your decision. Just because something is 'discontinued' doesn't mean it's crap. In fact, that's often where the best bargains can be found.
sorry, i thought that was a the new pioneer model you posted a picture of. thats why i said i wish it didnt have any bugs.
i really would like the passenger to be able to watch a dvd if im on a trip. and if im on a trip, i would want the navigation. so navi on a dvd is not want im looking for. i definitely want ipod control as well.
All these bells and whistles (like dvd playback and bluetooth) sound cool and all.... until you actually use them. For me, I rarely ever have a passenger in the car so for me to watch a dvd while driving... lol yeah, that's gonna happen. Generally, if you have a dvd you've already seen it. So HAVING to watch it while driving is about as dumb as it gets. Now some of the stuff I have on my ipod, on the other hand (last night's colbert report, daily show... sessame street... etc) I don't actually have to WATCH in order to get the full effect. If I'm stuck in traffic or at a red light maybe I'll glance down or whatever but 99% of the time I'm just listening. And obviously I'm not using the DVD player for these anything but rare occurences.
So... since this is indeed a huge decision (the amount of money you're gonna shell out to have this thing professionally installed will make this a rather permanent fixture in your car) you definitely wannna make the right choice. But do yourself a favor and ask yourself how often you truly are going to be playing DVDs while driving. Whatever that amount is, ask yourself then how often you'll actually need the navigation whild doing so. Navs are great and all but some people over-rely on them. I mean, once it shows me how to get somewhere I'm generally good the next time around. But either way, your screen's going to be occupied with the movie you're playing for your passenger so chances are you won't be using the nav anyway! lol And even if you had to pop the disc in in order to get yourself out of timbuktu... seriously, with all due respect... how often is this situation actually going to arise?
I'm not trying to sell you on the D3. I could care less. I just know, from a ridiculous level of research, how over-rated HD based navs are. DVDs might not quite be as obsolete these days as CDs but they're getting there. Most computers can easily turn a DVD into an AVI (or whatever) to make the file accessible on an ipod. I don't know man... I suppose if money's no object or if the HD based navs are the same price... then maybe my logic's off. But back when I was looking... it wasn't even close.
So... since this is indeed a huge decision (the amount of money you're gonna shell out to have this thing professionally installed will make this a rather permanent fixture in your car) you definitely wannna make the right choice. But do yourself a favor and ask yourself how often you truly are going to be playing DVDs while driving. Whatever that amount is, ask yourself then how often you'll actually need the navigation whild doing so. Navs are great and all but some people over-rely on them. I mean, once it shows me how to get somewhere I'm generally good the next time around. But either way, your screen's going to be occupied with the movie you're playing for your passenger so chances are you won't be using the nav anyway! lol And even if you had to pop the disc in in order to get yourself out of timbuktu... seriously, with all due respect... how often is this situation actually going to arise?
I'm not trying to sell you on the D3. I could care less. I just know, from a ridiculous level of research, how over-rated HD based navs are. DVDs might not quite be as obsolete these days as CDs but they're getting there. Most computers can easily turn a DVD into an AVI (or whatever) to make the file accessible on an ipod. I don't know man... I suppose if money's no object or if the HD based navs are the same price... then maybe my logic's off. But back when I was looking... it wasn't even close.
haveahotcarl
Member
- :
- 2003 Black Mica MSP
I just talked to a friend who has the D3 and turns out you can use navigation without a disc in. If you save the destination the D3 will actually write it to the internal memory, at least what is needed for the route. Apparently a little "M" comes up in the lower right corner indicating that it is saving. After it goes away you can remove the nav DVD and put whatever you want in there.
I would also have to agree with Chico, how often are you going to use the navigation while watching a DVD? If the passenger bitches put him/her in the trunk with a $50 portable DVD player and tell them to suck it up. Kill two birds with one stone, passenger watches a DVD and the bitching can't be heard.
I would also have to agree with Chico, how often are you going to use the navigation while watching a DVD? If the passenger bitches put him/her in the trunk with a $50 portable DVD player and tell them to suck it up. Kill two birds with one stone, passenger watches a DVD and the bitching can't be heard.
i appreciate all the suggestions guys but this is how i see it.
what is the point of getting one of these units if i do not get all of the bells and whistles? in my perspective, there is no point at all. i could get a decent single din head unit for cheap, then get a solid garmin navi and be done with it.
the point is, i want all of the bells and whistles. I agree, the DVD player will RARELY be used. But, i want that feature and if im going to be paying top dollar for one of these units, then it better be capable of it. Im not looking to watch shows while i drive, but if i have one of these double din screens then i would like the passenger to be able to watch a dvd on trips.
this may not sound reasonable to you guys, but this is what i want. if i dont get all of the bells and whistles, then i think spending this amount of money is absurd.
what is the point of getting one of these units if i do not get all of the bells and whistles? in my perspective, there is no point at all. i could get a decent single din head unit for cheap, then get a solid garmin navi and be done with it.
the point is, i want all of the bells and whistles. I agree, the DVD player will RARELY be used. But, i want that feature and if im going to be paying top dollar for one of these units, then it better be capable of it. Im not looking to watch shows while i drive, but if i have one of these double din screens then i would like the passenger to be able to watch a dvd on trips.
this may not sound reasonable to you guys, but this is what i want. if i dont get all of the bells and whistles, then i think spending this amount of money is absurd.
I have a Z3 and although its a cool unit, I hate that for all that $$$ they short-change you some features. Like color change on the illumination buttons, you only get blue. No RDS, cant use your iPods video output when connected to the iPod connector like the D3. The FM display sucks, and cant even have all 6 pre-set stations displayed at the same time, you need to scroll down to get to the 6th one. To change aspet ratio on DVD playback you have to go thru 6 different screens. Good thins, resolution is awesome.
A decent single din's going to run you about $250 while a 'solid' garmin will probably run about the same. This setup, while offering you the option of portability, can't compete when it comes to aesthetics. I hate clutter (especially in my car) and would hate to have one of those things, with all the wires hanging, suction-cupped to my dash. In addition to basically sucking in comparrison (to mine at least) when it comes to overall perfomance, the actual act of punching buttons into something suction-cupped... no good. My nav gets a workout and I appreciate the fact that it's solidly planted into my car's dash. I also appreciate the fact that an actual human sounding voice plays through my car speakers and it offers a smoothness to the interface that I have yet to see on any portable... regardless of price.
So yeah... you can go the cheap route. In addition to everything I just described, you'll lose out on the dvd playback, bluetooth (the portable's version of this is an absolute joke) and potentially ipod support. Since I've seen some D3's (which I believe is your least expensive option thus far) for about $800... paying an extra $300 in order to get the benefits just described is clearly worth it.
Not quite sure what you're even referring to here. If it's the HD-based navs (costing twice as much) versus the DVD-based ones (that won't let you use the nav while watching a dvd... something I'm not sure one would even want to do, let alone actually be ABLE to do) then all I can say is... the D3 obviously can do all of those things. The only drawback is that you'd have to take the nav disc out in order to play the dvd. As mentioned though, you're not going to be using the nav while watching a dvd anyway! lol And if it's THAT important... just swap the discs. But this scenario will never occur so it's irrelevant.
You make it seem like it's all or nothing. While I don't personally feel I compromised at all with my choice, even if I did, the cost savings more than justified it. Going back to your original post, you stated that you didn't want to skimp but weren't looking to break the bank either. I can't speak for anyone else but I was simply trying to offer a suggestion you might not have even thought about yet. HD-based navs have become all the rage... but much like 1080p (which likewise shares the same type of hype) you really need to dig down a bit deeper to truly understand if it's worth the extra dough. (not like it matters but, unless you have a blu-ray player, paying extra for a 1080p is completley pointless.) The jerkoffs at the big box store dont' want you to know that of course. Just like they dont' want you to think you can achieve the same level of functionality from a dvd-based unit (costing half the price) as you can from an HD-based. And since the Ipod support is so valuable to you, the Ipod would essentially double as a HD thus having a HD-based unit would render the HD redundant... and useless.
So this will be my last post. I think I've thrown more than my .02 in. It's funny how nothing much has changed in the past 1.5 years since I got my D3. Because of this, (and the fact that your priorities are very similar to mine) I'd highly recommend you go the route I did. In the end you won't be the least bit dissapointed or feel as if you didn't get all your 'bells and whistles'. And at the same time... yeah, you'll save $500+
Ricktalife
Member
- :
- 2012 Subaru WRX
it is!
mspHtown - just go down to the Fry's in Houston or South Houston and check out the 7120 and the AVIC-F900BT that they have on their indash GPS/XM nav traffic wall. And do the side by side there.
You will not be disappointed with either unit. But IMO 8120 ftw because it has ALL the bells and whistles that you are looking for.
You will not be disappointed with either unit. But IMO 8120 ftw because it has ALL the bells and whistles that you are looking for.
haveahotcarl
Member
- :
- 2003 Black Mica MSP
BillTheCat
Member
- :
- 2009 Mazdaspeed3 Sport
I'm also in the market for in-dash Nav right now. Simply for price, I am leaning towards the Pioneer over the comparable Kenwood units. Crutchfield is running specials on the F700 & F900 right now. $699 for the 700, $779 for the 900. But remember--- Crutchfield gives you a free install kit- fascia, wiring harness, etc. Plus, free shipping. AND until 12/2, you get a free rear view camera with those deals.
Only differences between the F900 & the F90 are that the F90 includes an iPod cable, has 4-volt pre-outs instead of 2.2-volt, and comes with 2 years warranty instead of 1.
The original firmware complaints kept me from buying the Pioneer, and price kept me away from the Kenwood. After the firmware updates, reviews seem mostly positive, with the exception of the 35-second boot time. I also like that the Nav display will now rotate to keep oriented to the vehicle instead of North being Up at all times.
I only recently got my MS3, but in my last car (MINI Cooper S), I was using an HP iPaq PDA & a RoyalTek Blue GPS Bluetooth receiver. So I had to put the BT receiver on the dash & power it up, put the PDA in its mount, power it up, start the Nav software, let it connect to teh BT signal, wait for the receiver to lock on... so the 35-second boot up on the Pioneer will be just peachy for me.
Sure, I'll miss the portability, but in a pinch, I can still grab the PDA & BT receiver and take it with me in a different car.
I am still considering options, but the F900 is looking very tempting at the moment.
Only differences between the F900 & the F90 are that the F90 includes an iPod cable, has 4-volt pre-outs instead of 2.2-volt, and comes with 2 years warranty instead of 1.
The original firmware complaints kept me from buying the Pioneer, and price kept me away from the Kenwood. After the firmware updates, reviews seem mostly positive, with the exception of the 35-second boot time. I also like that the Nav display will now rotate to keep oriented to the vehicle instead of North being Up at all times.
I only recently got my MS3, but in my last car (MINI Cooper S), I was using an HP iPaq PDA & a RoyalTek Blue GPS Bluetooth receiver. So I had to put the BT receiver on the dash & power it up, put the PDA in its mount, power it up, start the Nav software, let it connect to teh BT signal, wait for the receiver to lock on... so the 35-second boot up on the Pioneer will be just peachy for me.
Sure, I'll miss the portability, but in a pinch, I can still grab the PDA & BT receiver and take it with me in a different car.
I am still considering options, but the F900 is looking very tempting at the moment.
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CIRCUIT- do you have any pictures of your 8120 installed?
It should look something like this:
Here's what the AVICF900BT looks like,
And here's what the the 8120 looks like:
And can anyone else post or reference any other Pioneer HUs/ installed in their ride?
Personally, I think what I want to get out of a radio out weights how it looks. I have an Alpine double din w200 and it doesn't match 100%, but it does everything I want it too.
Below is pro's and con's compared to each other, not the D3 or any other Double din. Even if you go to Crutchfield to read reviews, the DNX8120 got much better review. But here it is:
AVICF900BT
Pros: 1)the price -$779.99 @ crutchfield w/ free backup camera, wire harness +kit or amazon.com for cheaper minus all the accessories 2) MSN Direct which give movie listings, resturant, traffic data 3) BT 4) 5.8" touchscreen 5) match interior lighting 6)voice control of iPod audio (with optional adapter)
Cons: 1) not cage mounted and you definitely need the kit to install 2) even with firmware update 2.0 it's still a little slow. 3) 5.8" touchscreen 4)6-channel preamp outputs (front, rear, subwoofer) 5) exposed CD/DVD slow [dust can get in] 6)1 yr warranty
DNX8120
Pros: 1) Maps by Garmin, the #1 selling GPS systems in the US 2) Bluetooth by Parrot, the leading manufacture of Bluetooth devices in the WORLD 3)6.95" touchscreen 4)7-channel preamp outputs (2 front, 2 rear, 2 subwoofer, center) 5) 2 year warranty 6) 2 relay outputs for opening garage or turning on home security system or whatever you can think of 7) cage mounted 8) ipod album art shows on screen 9) CD/DVD slot covered by screen
Cons: 1) price MSRP $1,599.99 2) no SD slot except for updating maps 3) no front aux input 4) doens't match interior lights, unless you have red or blue lights
It should look something like this:
Here's what the AVICF900BT looks like,
And here's what the the 8120 looks like:
And can anyone else post or reference any other Pioneer HUs/ installed in their ride?
Personally, I think what I want to get out of a radio out weights how it looks. I have an Alpine double din w200 and it doesn't match 100%, but it does everything I want it too.
Below is pro's and con's compared to each other, not the D3 or any other Double din. Even if you go to Crutchfield to read reviews, the DNX8120 got much better review. But here it is:
AVICF900BT
Pros: 1)the price -$779.99 @ crutchfield w/ free backup camera, wire harness +kit or amazon.com for cheaper minus all the accessories 2) MSN Direct which give movie listings, resturant, traffic data 3) BT 4) 5.8" touchscreen 5) match interior lighting 6)voice control of iPod audio (with optional adapter)
Cons: 1) not cage mounted and you definitely need the kit to install 2) even with firmware update 2.0 it's still a little slow. 3) 5.8" touchscreen 4)6-channel preamp outputs (front, rear, subwoofer) 5) exposed CD/DVD slow [dust can get in] 6)1 yr warranty
DNX8120
Pros: 1) Maps by Garmin, the #1 selling GPS systems in the US 2) Bluetooth by Parrot, the leading manufacture of Bluetooth devices in the WORLD 3)6.95" touchscreen 4)7-channel preamp outputs (2 front, 2 rear, 2 subwoofer, center) 5) 2 year warranty 6) 2 relay outputs for opening garage or turning on home security system or whatever you can think of 7) cage mounted 8) ipod album art shows on screen 9) CD/DVD slot covered by screen
Cons: 1) price MSRP $1,599.99 2) no SD slot except for updating maps 3) no front aux input 4) doens't match interior lights, unless you have red or blue lights
Ok... I know I said I was done but come on! I like what you've done in terms of listing the pros and cons... all very factual but is it even fair to compare the two? The DNX is twice as expensive! I'm thinkin an M3 is going to have a few more 'pros' than an MS3 so let's keep things in perspective.
But unlike the MS3/M3... I'd STILL take the Pioneer offering over the Kenwood. Maybe it's partially due to my stock Kenwood headunit literally (well ok, not literally) shitting the bed every few weeks... (to flip or not to flip... that is the question) but I've just never liked their products. A friend of mine has the next model down from the DNX and it's pure s***. He paid like $1400 for it and even he realizes it was a rip. Maybe this model's better but one of the things I couldn't help but notice was how choppy the motion was in map mode. It was like... playing a video game with a real bad graphic card. 10 fps baby! Now I'm not saying the Pioneer is... well, yeah... I am saying that. It's pretty god damn amazing how smooth and fluid it is. I realize this is just one of the 100+ things you consider in a product like this but, after having this system, all others (including the full line of portable garmins.. I've tested them all and they all suck ass) would just fail to compare in this regard. In fact, it would probably drive me and my OCD crazy... or crazier.
Anyways... switching gears. One of the things that I feel is an absolute MUST (no matter which one you get) is a 'steering wheel' remote. Now I placed that in quotes for a reason. More on that in a second. If you're anything like me, you're not just gonna put on a station and leave it. Hell, with the amount of choices out there (especially with Sirius or an ipod) you'll be shuffling through songs like crazy. So as cool as touchscreens might be... they're just not ideal when it comes to channel flipping. In addition, it's probably best to keep the screens as fresh as possible. Constantly pounding on them will only shorten their lifespan.
So a steering wheel remote is the answer. But here's the thing... don't put it on the steering wheel. In addition to having a rubber band wrapped around your wheel (which will piss you off everytime you turn your wheel) it's just not in a good spot. You have to take one of your hands off the 10/2 position and fiddle around with it... hoping nothing will be in the way. A FAR better place for it is right on the windshield stalk. I know I know... but trust me. You can keep your hands on the wheel and use your finger (my middle usually works best) to change channels... and more. I still prefer to adjust my volume with the rotary knob but, if one were to get an in dash without any rotory knobs, this would be all the more reason to get one.
Like I said... the key is to put it on your wiper stalk. Everyone's that's tried it agrees. In fact, with the exception of the last gen eclipse (steering wheel controls were on the back of the wheel... BEST place for them... tremendous design) this is easily the best choice around. These arrangements you see these days... no good. Anything that makes you have to take your hand off the wheel (or at least place it somewhere less ideal for driving purposes) is no good in my book.
But unlike the MS3/M3... I'd STILL take the Pioneer offering over the Kenwood. Maybe it's partially due to my stock Kenwood headunit literally (well ok, not literally) shitting the bed every few weeks... (to flip or not to flip... that is the question) but I've just never liked their products. A friend of mine has the next model down from the DNX and it's pure s***. He paid like $1400 for it and even he realizes it was a rip. Maybe this model's better but one of the things I couldn't help but notice was how choppy the motion was in map mode. It was like... playing a video game with a real bad graphic card. 10 fps baby! Now I'm not saying the Pioneer is... well, yeah... I am saying that. It's pretty god damn amazing how smooth and fluid it is. I realize this is just one of the 100+ things you consider in a product like this but, after having this system, all others (including the full line of portable garmins.. I've tested them all and they all suck ass) would just fail to compare in this regard. In fact, it would probably drive me and my OCD crazy... or crazier.
Anyways... switching gears. One of the things that I feel is an absolute MUST (no matter which one you get) is a 'steering wheel' remote. Now I placed that in quotes for a reason. More on that in a second. If you're anything like me, you're not just gonna put on a station and leave it. Hell, with the amount of choices out there (especially with Sirius or an ipod) you'll be shuffling through songs like crazy. So as cool as touchscreens might be... they're just not ideal when it comes to channel flipping. In addition, it's probably best to keep the screens as fresh as possible. Constantly pounding on them will only shorten their lifespan.
So a steering wheel remote is the answer. But here's the thing... don't put it on the steering wheel. In addition to having a rubber band wrapped around your wheel (which will piss you off everytime you turn your wheel) it's just not in a good spot. You have to take one of your hands off the 10/2 position and fiddle around with it... hoping nothing will be in the way. A FAR better place for it is right on the windshield stalk. I know I know... but trust me. You can keep your hands on the wheel and use your finger (my middle usually works best) to change channels... and more. I still prefer to adjust my volume with the rotary knob but, if one were to get an in dash without any rotory knobs, this would be all the more reason to get one.
Like I said... the key is to put it on your wiper stalk. Everyone's that's tried it agrees. In fact, with the exception of the last gen eclipse (steering wheel controls were on the back of the wheel... BEST place for them... tremendous design) this is easily the best choice around. These arrangements you see these days... no good. Anything that makes you have to take your hand off the wheel (or at least place it somewhere less ideal for driving purposes) is no good in my book.
Hey, I'm not saying that the Pioneer is not a great offer. It's the best bang for your buck, no doubt. BUT, the 900BT still has a few bugs in it that I don't like, which have now been starting to be fixed with firmware updates. You're obviously a Pioneer fan from your experience with the D3, which is fine.
And if you're buddy dropped $1399 on the 7120, he should have just ponied up the additional $200 and gotten the best one the 8120. Excelon is not s***, even the DMASK series, [which was a flaw in the motor that caused the ribbon to fail, easily fixed with an $11 ribbon] , I had 2 sound system running on Excelon headunits with no issues.
Regardless of what you and I think, it'll be mspHtown's decision based on PRICE, value and features he's looking for.
So mspHtown, just get the AVICF900BT.
i already ordered the f90BT ealier this week. sonicelectronix had it for 699.99 shipped and it comes with 2 year warranty, mounting kit, and wire harness.
also, found the avic forums. apparently Pioneer forgot to delete files in earlier firmwares that allow the end user to boot the unit up in Windows CE mode. Meaning, the unit is completely hackable. I will not have to alter the wire harness to bypass the gps and dvd for in motion viewing/altering, i can just change a small line of code.
many of the other problems/issues people dislike about the unit can also be fixed with simple changes to the coding.
Also, you are now able to put Garmin, TomTom, or other GPS systems on the unit.
You gotta love forums!
So, with these unlimited abilities and the incredible price, the f series is a no brainer.
also, found the avic forums. apparently Pioneer forgot to delete files in earlier firmwares that allow the end user to boot the unit up in Windows CE mode. Meaning, the unit is completely hackable. I will not have to alter the wire harness to bypass the gps and dvd for in motion viewing/altering, i can just change a small line of code.
many of the other problems/issues people dislike about the unit can also be fixed with simple changes to the coding.
Also, you are now able to put Garmin, TomTom, or other GPS systems on the unit.
You gotta love forums!
So, with these unlimited abilities and the incredible price, the f series is a no brainer.
Sweet.
