Double Din- DNX8120 vs. AVIC-Z3 vs. AVIC-F90BT

M

mspHtown

Member
:
MSP 2003.5
I am looking for a double din head unit for my protege. I have narrowed the search down to these 3 models. Does anyone have any reviews, experiences, comments, etc. with these models?

Also, i am open to other suggestions if there is something else out there that is just as capable.

I dont want to go broke buying a unit, but i am not looking to cheap out and sacrifice features.


I would like the unit to be loaded (i.e. navigation, dvd playback, bluetooth connectivity, ipod connectivity, touchscreen, all audio file playback, sd slot, etc.).

much appreciated
 
I can definitely help out. I have experience selling the F and Z series (I work at circuit city) and I am getting a DNX8120... like tomorrow lol.

Out of all those, I would go with the DNX8120. Here's why:


DNX8120 has built-in bluetooth
- Z3 needs to add on ND-BT1 adapter (~$200)

DNX8120 uses Garmin maps (the BEST in my opinion)
- F90 + Z3 use telelatlas maps (not bad, but not Garmin)

DNX8120 has 2 usb and 2 A/V inputs (1 for ipod (audio and video) hookup + 1 more)
- F90 has 1 usb input and 1 A/V input (ipod (audio and video) OR aux)
- Z3 has a/v input and needs old CDIB100ii (audio only, does not work with new nano or touch) and no USB input

DNX8120 has a nice 7" screen
- F90 only has a 5.8" screen

DNX8120 has 5V preouts and digital time alignment
- F90 has 4V and no time alignment
- Z3 has 2.2V and no time alignment

Edit:

Almost forgot this is kind of important:

DNX8120 comes WITH a cage to mount it in the protege double din dash hole (so you don't have to use a bad dash kit)
- F90 and Z3 do not come with a cage, but pioneer sells one (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/CarAudioVideo/Accessories/Accessories/ADT-VA133)
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the reply. I was leaning towards the F90 but now you just made my decision even harder!

Some questions for you. I know you said you have sold these, have you gotten a chance to play with them at all?

I have pretty much crossed the Z3 off the list, so i am still looking at the kenwood unit and the 90bt.

How is the resolution on the kenwood screen?

Do you have any experience with the bluetooth connectivity? I read a review that the kenwood mic pics up a ton of noise and does not filter it. Apparently the person on the other end of the line has difficulty hearing the person in the car. Any comments on this?

I know the bootup time on the 90bt is poor. The new 2.0 update has brought it down to about 35 seconds. How long does the kenwood unit take to boot up?

I appreciate it.


Circuit said:
I can definitely help out. I have experience selling the F and Z series (I work at circuit city) and I am getting a DNX8120... like tomorrow lol.

Out of all those, I would go with the DNX8120. Here's why:


DNX8120 has built-in bluetooth
- Z3 needs to add on ND-BT1 adapter (~$200)

DNX8120 uses Garmin maps (the BEST in my opinion)
- F90 + Z3 use telelatlas maps (not bad, but not Garmin)

DNX8120 has 2 usb and 2 A/V inputs (1 for ipod (audio and video) hookup + 1 more)
- F90 has 1 usb input and 1 A/V input (ipod (audio and video) OR aux)
- Z3 has a/v input and needs old CDIB100ii (audio only, does not work with new nano or touch) and no USB input

DNX8120 has a nice 7" screen
- F90 only has a 5.8" screen

DNX8120 has 5V preouts and digital time alignment
- F90 has 4V and no time alignment
- Z3 has 2.2V and no time alignment

Edit:

Almost forgot this is kind of important:

DNX8120 comes WITH a cage to mount it in the protege double din dash hole (so you don't have to use a bad dash kit)
- F90 and Z3 do not come with a cage, but pioneer sells one (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/CarAudioVideo/Accessories/Accessories/ADT-VA133)
Click to expand...
 
The lag on the F (only had a chance to play with the F700, but I'm sure the 90 is not much different) is the worst part about it. Startup, button presses, everything. I need to do the 2.0 update on our display unit to see if that helps any.

I have not seen the kenwood with my own eyes, yet, but I have no reason to believe the screen would look any worse than the 90BT.

The kenwood also has 2 relay outputs that you control through the touch screen. You can use these to activate a relay for anything. Extra lighting (interior, or exterior), garage door opener, etc.

The only bad reviews about the bluetooth that I read for the Kenwood were from people with iphones. Smart phones (iphone, blackberry, palm os, winmo, etc.) are notorious for not working well and/or properly with anything bluetooth except for basic headsets.

mspHtown said:
Thanks for the reply. I was leaning towards the F90 but now you just made my decision even harder!

Some questions for you. I know you said you have sold these, have you gotten a chance to play with them at all?

I have pretty much crossed the Z3 off the list, so i am still looking at the kenwood unit and the 90bt.

How is the resolution on the kenwood screen?

Do you have any experience with the bluetooth connectivity? I read a review that the kenwood mic pics up a ton of noise and does not filter it. Apparently the person on the other end of the line has difficulty hearing the person in the car. Any comments on this?

I know the bootup time on the 90bt is poor. The new 2.0 update has brought it down to about 35 seconds. How long does the kenwood unit take to boot up?

I appreciate it.
Click to expand...
 
Go to youtube (or, even better, see if any stores have them on display) to see them in action. When shelling out this kind of dough (not to mention the cost it'll take to install) you want to make sure you make the right purchase. There are a lot of subtle nuances that could make/break.

A couple years ago I bought an AVIC-D3. (The F90 is its spiritual successor) I can't speak highly enough about it. Here's why...

For the price (I bought mine for about $800 back in the day and it looks like the F90 can be had for even less these days) you simply cannot go wrong. You may need to get some extras (as I did) but those can be had online for FAR LESS than what you'd pay retail. examples... I got my bluetooth kit for $60 on ebay... ipod connector for $30... steering wheel remote for $25...you get the idea. Just like buying the actual unit at a big box store would've equated to a rather painful (rather redundant) prostate exam... buying those add-ons there (while convenient) is a bad move. But anyway...

What I like about the Pioneer...

I always hated how the backlighting on the stock Kenwood didn't match the dash/Hvac lights. These Pioneer units allow you to match them perfectly

The maps might not be 'garmin' but they've never let me down. Also worth noting is the smooth interface while driving and the convincingly human voice that guides you. After having this in my car, I doubt I could ever go to a stand-alone unit. Hell, even the highest price, most critically acclaimed stand-alone falls short in these key depts. Traveling animation is herky-jerky... not fluid like the Pioneer. The voice is a disgrace. Tinman & Max Hedroom's lovechild.

Perhaps the thing that most sold me was the lack of a HD. That's right, lack. I looked at the D3 prior and liked its larger screen and built in HD. Then I did some reading and read that I could just get an ipod cable and plug it into my ipod. My ipod would then double as a HD. I wouldn't have to waste hours loading/unloading crap from my receiver... or trying to get everytyhing 'just right'. Instead, I could do what I've been doing for years... and just use itunes to manage everything. The system, though it's not as easy to use as an actual ipod, does an admirable job. You can also buy a bypass kit that allows you to watch videos stored on your ipod while driving.

Last point... about the size of the screen. This was one of the things I didn't want to skimp on. In hindsight, I feel I made the right decision. Even though I have steering wheel remote, I prefer the analong dial for controlling volume. The bigger screen versions do not have this but the smaller screen avic-d3 and F90 does. Realize that, even at their smaller size, they're still a lot bigger than any of the stand-alone garbage being sold out there for almost the same price. So all in all... I'm quite pleased with mine and would highly recommend it, and for that matter, any similar Pioneer product. Just be sure to shop around. The Kenwood you listed is being sold on Crutchfield for $1500.. which is nearly twice the price of the Pioneer. If that's not a factor these days, I don't know what is. Good luck.
 
s***... my bootup time is like... maybe 10 seconds. lol I've never timed it but then again, there's never been much of a reason to. I just read a couple reviews on the F90 (which I LOVE... I hear the voice recognition is on par with the likes of Acura) and none of them complained about bootup time or any lag in the interface. I'm guessing that was a fluke and probably due to some other cause.
 
thanks for the suggestions keep them coming.






i have been to bestbuy and circuit city, they do not have any of the units on display.


the boot-up time on the fseries used to be atrocious. but there has been a couple firmware updates, and the latest 2.0 update has brought the boot-up time down to about 35 seconds. not fast, but definitely not a big deal.



Prices at sonic electronics:

f-90bt $725 shipped
DNX8120 $1200 shipped


There is no way in **** i am going to let someone touch my car, so i wont be paying anything for labor.



Circuit, do you honestly think the kenwood unit is worth $475 more?
 
i got a kenwood ddx512 for 380 shipped.. i like it and no dash install kit necessary... but you have to buy the navi (250) and bluetooth (70) options

also it has a 6.1 screen
 
also before you toss the Avic-Z3 you should know that it is the only one with a built in HD to have the maps loaded on...the others you need to use a DVD that contains the maps, thus no listening to music and getting told where to go unless you have an ipod
 
SleepyMSP said:
also before you toss the Avic-Z3 you should know that it is the only one with a built in HD to have the maps loaded on...the others you need to use a DVD that contains the maps, thus no listening to music and getting told where to go unless you have an ipod
Click to expand...

for the avic-90bt:

"The AVIC-D3's obsolete DVD-based GPS navigation system has been replaced by an all new hard drive based GPS software that holds over 12 million points of interest. No more shuffling navigation discs, no more stopping or pausing your music!"

It is not dvd based. And im pretty sure the 8120 is not dvd based as well.
 
SleepyMSP said:
Uhh...not according to the kenwood site...

http://www.kenwood.ca/Compare/?Models=DNX8120,DNX7120

here is the adapter you need:
http://www.crutchfieldcanada.com/Kenwood_KCA_BT100_Bluetooth_Hands_Free_Interface_p/113BT100.htm
Click to expand...


There are strange contradictions on the site. It specifically says "Built-In Bluetooth Technology " but then says the adapter is required. Crutchfield says it is built in, and if you look at "what's in the box" it says the bluetooth mic is included. The video of the 7120 also says that the 8120 has BT built in. So I am going to go with that it is built in.

And yes, both the F90 and 8120 both have internal memory for the maps.

mspHtown, that is a big price difference between the two. They are both good units, and you really can't lose with either one. I think the deciding factor will be the user experience. Circuit City's should have the F700 at least on display, if not the F900 also. There should be no difference in the interface between the F90 and F900. Same goes for Best buys which should have the DNX7120.
 
mspHtown said:
for the avic-90bt:

"The AVIC-D3's obsolete DVD-based GPS navigation system has been replaced by an all new hard drive based GPS software that holds over 12 million points of interest. No more shuffling navigation discs, no more stopping or pausing your music!"

It is not dvd based. And im pretty sure the 8120 is not dvd based as well.
Click to expand...

really, thats good to know, I couldn't find info related to that thanks for the correction
 
Circuit said:
There are strange contradictions on the site. It specifically says "Built-In Bluetooth Technology " but then says the adapter is required. Crutchfield says it is built in, and if you look at "what's in the box" it says the bluetooth mic is included. The video of the 7120 also says that the 8120 has BT built in. So I am going to go with that it is built in.

And yes, both the F90 and 8120 both have internal memory for the maps.

mspHtown, that is a big price difference between the two. They are both good units, and you really can't lose with either one. I think the deciding factor will be the user experience. Circuit City's should have the F700 at least on display, if not the F900 also. There should be no difference in the interface between the F90 and F900. Same goes for Best buys which should have the DNX7120.
Click to expand...


guess il check out another bestbuy and circuit city. thanks for help
 
mspHtown said:
for the avic-90bt:

"The AVIC-D3's obsolete DVD-based GPS navigation system has been replaced by an all new hard drive based GPS software that holds over 12 million points of interest. No more shuffling navigation discs, no more stopping or pausing your music!"

It is not dvd based. And im pretty sure the 8120 is not dvd based as well.
Click to expand...


Funny quote... love the irony. One can debate whether or not dvd-based nag systems are 'obsolete' all they want... but nobody can convince me the CD medium is NOT obsolete. When you have the ability to pair your ipod with the unit and listen to everything via the unit itself... why the F would you want to fumble around with discs? Don't give me the "cds sound better" garbage. Sure, that may be technically true but the difference (can be) so minimal that, considering the nature of the car environment (road noise, nvh, etc.) it's not really a factor.

So if it's the choice between the Z2... or any HD based nav system and the F90 (or even D3 like I have... if you can find one, I bet they're dirt cheap) it's a no brainer. The difference in price will allow you to get an ipod... with money left over. and the maps/routes load just as fast. in fact, my friend has a new infinity g35 with a hd based nav system. always get that stupid loading bar when calculating a new route. not with mine. thing's done in like a second or less.
 
CHICO2003 said:
Funny quote... love the irony. One can debate whether or not dvd-based nag systems are 'obsolete' all they want... but nobody can convince me the CD medium is NOT obsolete. When you have the ability to pair your ipod with the unit and listen to everything via the unit itself... why the F would you want to fumble around with discs? Don't give me the "cds sound better" garbage. Sure, that may be technically true but the difference (can be) so minimal that, considering the nature of the car environment (road noise, nvh, etc.) it's not really a factor.

So if it's the choice between the Z2... or any HD based nav system and the F90 (or even D3 like I have... if you can find one, I bet they're dirt cheap) it's a no brainer. The difference in price will allow you to get an ipod... with money left over. and the maps/routes load just as fast. in fact, my friend has a new infinity g35 with a hd based nav system. always get that stupid loading bar when calculating a new route. not with mine. thing's done in like a second or less.
Click to expand...

It's not that CD's sound better and MP3's sound worse. It is the quality of the recording and the amount of compression. Store bought CD's will sound 100 times better than a 125kbps mp3. Now if you are only running stock bad speakers, then the difference may not be as noticeable, but with a fully amplified system with quality speakers, the difference in SQ is HUGE.
 
lmfao you gotta be kidding. oh man... 100 times better? come on! that's just insane.

for the record, while my system might not be showcar worthy... I must say, it's pretty damn good. nothing stock from the original msp setup. upgraded kicker comp speakers throughout complete with separate amps for both the speakers and sub... and of course the aforementioned headunit. I'm no audiophile... but close. I've tested songs back to back on cd and 160k+mp3... no way in hell you can tell the difference. especially while driving... in a loud ass car like mine! lol between the exhaust and the damn motor mounts... ugh. maybe... MAYBE if I was in some luxury boat like a bentley... but no, not even then since I've tested this while parked. lol one of the main reasons... cds, for all their hype in sound quality, are compressed tracks as well.
 
I am interested in how well the Kenwood integrates with the Iphone 3g. I keep all my music on my phone. The files are stored at 192 to 320 kps, good enough for my ears. I would like to know if the Kenwood or any other double din nav system is capable of integrating with the Iphone 3g. I know the pioneer does a good job of integration, but have not heard about other units.
 
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