ZealoustheEnder
Contributor
- :
- 2003 MSP
Sweet. Put a Jack with a 2x4 under the engine remove the passenger side mount to get extra room to work.
#1289 - A story of rebirth
- Thread starter OThree.5
- Start date
hornsfan10609
Certified Mazda Tech
- :
- 2003.5 Mazdaspeed Protege x2
The mount has to come out anyway to install the belt, it's not common for these cars to jump time. I am curious if the tensioner is bad, it should be easy to tell if the belt is loose or not.
10-4.. thanks for the tip.
Yeah, at 150,000 miles, I don't doubt that anything is failing. I won't be surprised to find the tensioner spring is gone.. or like you said, the tensioner is just garbage..
Hopefully I find that actually, or I am gonna start worrying about the valves.
Its gonna be a day or two before I get the stuff I ordered, but I may go ahead and get that timing cover off tonight and see what I can find out regarding that tensioner..
EDIT: Valk, the package I ordered comes with everything.. water pump, tensioner, idler, gaskets, timing belt.. So all of that stuff is being replaced completely. I figure the worst case scenario is the engine is blown.. if thats the case I already have EVERYTHING to do a proper tune up on another motor.
Yeah, at 150,000 miles, I don't doubt that anything is failing. I won't be surprised to find the tensioner spring is gone.. or like you said, the tensioner is just garbage..
Hopefully I find that actually, or I am gonna start worrying about the valves.
Its gonna be a day or two before I get the stuff I ordered, but I may go ahead and get that timing cover off tonight and see what I can find out regarding that tensioner..
EDIT: Valk, the package I ordered comes with everything.. water pump, tensioner, idler, gaskets, timing belt.. So all of that stuff is being replaced completely. I figure the worst case scenario is the engine is blown.. if thats the case I already have EVERYTHING to do a proper tune up on another motor.
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I hear yea hornsfan, but I don't think it common for someone to try to start this motor without a CKS plugged in (I haven't found anyone whose done it in my searching) Combine that with the age of the motor... I think I am kind of in uncharted territory here.. unless I blew it up.. then I am in VERY charted territory here. Lmao.
Alright. I found a guy on youtube that did this job.. maybe its one of us.. lol IDK, but I am following this guide
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6lJ_3yw_Tc&index=51&list=WL
EDIT: LOL.. So this job sucks. I am really not supposed to be doing work this serious in my driveway.. its against the rules (cars that are inoperable), so I am working under the cover of night, and keeping everything stashed in the trunk so it doesn't look like work is being done if you walked past the car. It makes this all that more fun.. lol
So I was able to get the top timing cover off. It is pretty destroyed, so I assume the bottom one is (I can't actually see most of it, due to oil and dirt all over it.) Anyhow, I ordered a new timing belt cover (upper and lower).
I was also able to get the crankshaft pulley bolt out. I threaded two M8 1.25's into the pulley face, and then wrapped scrap network cable around the left one, and around the motor mount bolts. I sent one more piece of cable around the rightmost bolt and wrapped it around the control arm. I wrapped my impact wrench in a sweatshirt (to be as quiet as possible) and gave it a few hits and it came loose.
That was it for tonight. I didn't even get to see the tensioner. I put the motor mount back, put the tire back on and called it..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6lJ_3yw_Tc&index=51&list=WL
EDIT: LOL.. So this job sucks. I am really not supposed to be doing work this serious in my driveway.. its against the rules (cars that are inoperable), so I am working under the cover of night, and keeping everything stashed in the trunk so it doesn't look like work is being done if you walked past the car. It makes this all that more fun.. lol
So I was able to get the top timing cover off. It is pretty destroyed, so I assume the bottom one is (I can't actually see most of it, due to oil and dirt all over it.) Anyhow, I ordered a new timing belt cover (upper and lower).
I was also able to get the crankshaft pulley bolt out. I threaded two M8 1.25's into the pulley face, and then wrapped scrap network cable around the left one, and around the motor mount bolts. I sent one more piece of cable around the rightmost bolt and wrapped it around the control arm. I wrapped my impact wrench in a sweatshirt (to be as quiet as possible) and gave it a few hits and it came loose.
That was it for tonight. I didn't even get to see the tensioner. I put the motor mount back, put the tire back on and called it..
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So I have been brainstorming. I think I should pull this head while I am in this deep. I have two broken off exhaust manifold bolts. Both are bottom bolts and 1 of them is the bottom, leftmost bolt. (Impossible to access straight on with a drill) I have a tap and die set, but I don't think it's possible to do this with the head installed. It seems like an 'on the bench' type of job.
The only thing is, if I pull the head, I don't want to reuse the hardware and ARP headstuds are like $100.
$100 for some bolts.. sounds nuts. (No pun intended)
I am already so deep in this car, it seems like the right thing to do (plus I can clean off the top of the combustion chambers and pistons)
Idk.. I think that's the plan.. I hate to spend all this time and money fixing everything and installing a FMIC, and not fixing the exhaust leak.
I need to find cheaper headstuds...
The only thing is, if I pull the head, I don't want to reuse the hardware and ARP headstuds are like $100.
$100 for some bolts.. sounds nuts. (No pun intended)
I am already so deep in this car, it seems like the right thing to do (plus I can clean off the top of the combustion chambers and pistons)
Idk.. I think that's the plan.. I hate to spend all this time and money fixing everything and installing a FMIC, and not fixing the exhaust leak.
I need to find cheaper headstuds...
IllaNoizeTV
Member
- :
- 2003 Mazdaspeed Protege
I'll tell you, I had a similar experience when I first got my msp. Everything was running smooth when I first got it. I decided to Change the timing belt and water pump for preventative maintenance and to refresh the car, then the mechanic (who was a bad mechanic) recommended to replace the spark plugs. He replaced all the parts then accidently damaged the crank sensor, then the spark plugs were gapped incorrectly. After that EVERYTHING went downhill.I got all that fixed then the wires to my coil packs were damaged, then battery died, then brakes were grinding, then maf sensor died, then radiator went out, then needed new tires. I replaced the dead wastegate afterwards. I'm not saying that all the other stuff that went bad is the mechanics fault I'm just saying sometimes it takes a lot of money, patience, and time to get everything fixed due to the previous owners mistakes or lack of care, but once you get these things fixed its smooth sails after that. Trust me. There's been so many times I wanted to just sell/trade the msp due to these problems but just take it one problem at a time. To this day I'm very happy I kept it. By far, the funnest car I've ever driven. I've driven in Mercedes, bmws, supras, tc's, etc.
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Waiting for ebay stuff gives you too much time to brainstorm... I would have just gone to a parts counter and got the timing kit.. then you wouod be done by now and happy with your car....unless its confirmed actually ******, stop planning to spend money.
If your head comes off, you should plan it around a set of forged rods ect..
If your head comes off, you should plan it around a set of forged rods ect..
Thanks for sharing that. I really thought I was getting a "steal" at $2600 for this car. I really didn't expect to be this deep already financially (So far I am at +$700) I can't imagine what it would cost if I wasn't doing this work myself.. probably upwards of the cost of the car all over again..
My "purchased list"
battery
timing belt / water pump kit
timing covers
tensioner spring
crankshaft position sensor
plugs
wires
coil packs
coolant
rtv
oil / oil filter
full gasket set
head bolts
tap and die set
wheel stud
intercooler / piping kit
hours upon hours of R&D and work..
I didn't have to buy the PCV, or the valve cover gasket, or the Greddy Stage 1 clutch (that the car doesn't need yet)
So I saved about $20 there. LMFAO.
I still need a BOV and the adapter for it, and the intake / pod filter.. i might steal the intake off my other car (I saved the factory airbox for it)
I THINK that is it, for now... but YIKES, my credit card is taking a beating.. $2600 turned into $3400 really quick.
I am basically rebuilding most of the engine.. This car was bought and driven hard for 140,000 miles without much more than oil changes and tires, then sold off. (which pisses me off) I cannot even imagine all this being financially feasible if the work was being done by a shop.. no wonder these get parted out too often.. but I didn't buy a turbo car so I could part it out. The whole point is to have a decent platform to build on..
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I got a much better deal buying online.. I think I got that part off amazon.. I can't remember anymore..
But the forged internals.. I thought the cranks and everything has to be balanced?? taking the head off (and not pulling the whole motor) is WAY easier.. I don't see any reason to forge this motor now.. maybe when it needs a rebuild, I'll swap motors and forge the one in the car.. probably a few years out.
"then you wouod be done by now and happy with your car"
Just getting a the timing belt/water pump done is a pretty major task.. i wouldn't be done yet.. I promise.
but "happy with my car" is not accurate if I went that route. I would still be pissed off about the exhaust leak. I HAVE to get those broken bolts out of the head before I will consider myself "happy" with the car.
IllaNoizeTV
Member
- :
- 2003 Mazdaspeed Protege
Just stay the course man. I get compliments on my car all the time. It's a good platform, it has its quirks but a solid platform.. nevertheless. You just have to learn how to take care of it. After this $3400 it should last you awhile.
ZealoustheEnder
Contributor
- :
- 2003 MSP
Don't pull the head man pull the radiator. That will give you the room you need. And save you a lot of hassle trying to pull the head and everything at night
Thats an idea.. we are talking about the bottom leftmost bolt though.. its really close to the power steering pump. Not sure if JUST the radiator removal is gonna do it.
That being said I am COMPLETELY on board with not doing it. I don't want to do it at all.. I am already worried enough. It just seems like if I don't do it now, its not ever gonna get fixed. Ever... you know what I mean?
Also, the idea of drilling and tapping that while installed in the car.. even on a weekend day when I can 'kind of' get away with working on it, it doesn't seem like a good idea at all.
I think doing this, you could take it off, bring it inside.. clean it up.. spray the tops of the combustion chambers with degreaser and WD40.. get the bolt drilled out all squared up on it.. that seems like the smarter move..
The question is: Is it worth the time?
The answer depends on whether or not I have compression when I get it timed.
SO I think I am gonna wrestle the old timing belt off... set the timing.. put the OLD one back on... put spark plugs in 2, 3, and 4.. Turn the motor by the crank and listen for the hissing and valve opening sound. (I don't have that at all right now)
If I have compression, the heads coming off. If I don't, the motor is done... then this is gonna be a junkyard motor swap type situation. lol
EDIT: I conceed to not taking the head off. It would be easier to move the power steering pump and not risk the 'gunk seal' that (hopefully) is keeping compression. I will ghetto-rig something if I have to.
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timing belt/waterpump is pretty easy heh. i did my wifes on a wednesday night and she drove to work the next day. really wasnt that big a deal. lots of write ups but all the stuff that has to come out is pretty logical. the timing cover honestly is what gave me the most grief <_<
hope it all works out for you though.
hope it all works out for you though.
ZealoustheEnder
Contributor
- :
- 2003 MSP
Power steering pump comes off and is left connected when you do the manifold. It takes a 14mm loosen the tensioner first and then take the belt off. Remove the long bolt and then you can remove the bracket that's in the way. Just use a bungee cord or something to hold the power steering pump to the side
hornsfan10609
Certified Mazda Tech
- :
- 2003.5 Mazdaspeed Protege x2
Removing the cylinder head isn't necessary but I pulled mine to remove a snapped ARP exhaust stud last year. You can get head bolts from rockauto for about $40, I have used them on multiple occasions for a few years now and haven't had any problems. OEM bolts are over $100, keep in mind you will need a head gasket and a good torque wrench to reinstall the head. Timing belt and water pump are not difficult, you could easily finish that job in a day, even if it is your first try. Radiator removal isn't necessary if you don't pull the head but if you do the coolant has to be flushed anyway so you may as well. BE CAREFUL REMOVING THE RAD HOSES the plastic will most likely break, use a pick or something to 'break' the rubber seal on the hose/rad before you yank it off
I got the power steering pump removed from the bracket entirely last night.. I think that + removing the rad will make enough clearance to drill this bolt out (hopefully) the other bolt is broken off a little above exhaust manifold flange level, so removing the manifold should given me 1/2 - 3/4 of an inch of meat to play with on that one. Hopefully i can get that out without a drill.
I drained the radiator and now I am working on this stupid 14mm alternator pivot bolt.. That thing is a b**** to get to.. I am open to suggestions, lol.. It almost looks like I should remove this front suspension brace or whatever you call it.. removing the downpipe would be fantastic, but it looks old enough to come off and not go back on, if you know what i mean..
This radiator looks sketchy.. I'm thinking since I am going FMIC, I will just get a regular protege radiator for $60 instead of the $300+ for the other options..
I am hoping to get that alternator belt off of there and this harmonic balancer off tonight. I would REALLY love it if I could get that lower timing cover off and start looking at my tensioner a little bit. The idler looks fine.
I'll have a pic dump coming with the next post
I still have this last motor mount to install and I am right in that area with this alternator, I really wanna knock that out while I am under there..
I drained the radiator and now I am working on this stupid 14mm alternator pivot bolt.. That thing is a b**** to get to.. I am open to suggestions, lol.. It almost looks like I should remove this front suspension brace or whatever you call it.. removing the downpipe would be fantastic, but it looks old enough to come off and not go back on, if you know what i mean..
This radiator looks sketchy.. I'm thinking since I am going FMIC, I will just get a regular protege radiator for $60 instead of the $300+ for the other options..
I am hoping to get that alternator belt off of there and this harmonic balancer off tonight. I would REALLY love it if I could get that lower timing cover off and start looking at my tensioner a little bit. The idler looks fine.
I'll have a pic dump coming with the next post
I still have this last motor mount to install and I am right in that area with this alternator, I really wanna knock that out while I am under there..
