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Would you buy a MAZDASPEED2?
- Thread starter Antoine
- Start date
M
M2NO
My European Mazda2 has 16" as standard. With 195/45 wheels. The Sport outside North America has sideskirts, roof spoiler and 16". If they make a MPS of the 2, I think also that it will have 17".
This thread makes me laugh. I'd love a Mazdaspeed2 but you guys have been requesting things like a 200+ bhp engine, 4-wheel disc brakes, front-mounted intercooler, full body kit, and even AWD all for under $20k?! There's a reason the US Mazda2 doesn't have half the options the Europoean and even Canadian models do - Americans will not pay $25k+ for a car with the size/quality of the Mazda2. One has to only look at the Mini to see what kind of cost you'd be looking at if Mazda made a 2 with even half the things requested. I've said this in another thread but the best idea for a MS2 would be the following:
1. Same 1.5L direct-injected engine with a small GT20-ish turbo and no intercooler (not needed with small turbo) putting out 150 bhp
2. Retuned ECU
3. Slightly lower, stiffer springs and matched shock absorbers
4. Stiffer front swaybar and rear torsion bar
5. Front strut tower bar
6. Obligatory appearance upgrade (wheels, body kit, interior accents, etc.)
All this and you're easily looking at a 2 that is ~$20k
That being said, I'd still trade my '11 2 Touring with 1500 miles for a new MS2 in a heartbeat.
1. Same 1.5L direct-injected engine with a small GT20-ish turbo and no intercooler (not needed with small turbo) putting out 150 bhp
2. Retuned ECU
3. Slightly lower, stiffer springs and matched shock absorbers
4. Stiffer front swaybar and rear torsion bar
5. Front strut tower bar
6. Obligatory appearance upgrade (wheels, body kit, interior accents, etc.)
All this and you're easily looking at a 2 that is ~$20k
That being said, I'd still trade my '11 2 Touring with 1500 miles for a new MS2 in a heartbeat.
Well I suppose not everyone's requests were unreasonable. I'm not sure the 2.0L MZR would fit, but even if it did wouldn't that seem like a little of a step backwards in technology (vehicle dynamics, power vs. displacement, fuel consumption, etc.)? I agree with the disc brakes, but how many cars that have an MSRP for $16k have four-wheel disc brakes? Still would have been a nice option though. The thing about the turbo is that every "Mazdaspeed" vehicle has always been the base+turbo. Not saying Mazda wouldn't take a different path with the 2 (one just has to look at the production run of the MS3's) but I would think a N/A MS2 wouldn't be competitive due to fuel consumption, etc.I thought I was pretty reasonable lol.
Not unless we're talking British pounds...You mean we wont get a 300hp awd mazdaspeed2 for 18k? shucks.
I thought 200HP was reasonable too considering there are many euro hot hatches making 220-250HP for around $20,000. Renault, Citroen, and others. The GTI also has 200HP for $22,000 average new price. And RSX Type S/Civic Si have about 200HP and I think they were/are around $19,000 new. They are certainly more upscale than a Mazda 2 so it should not have any trouble staying under $20,000.
This thread makes me laugh. I'd love a Mazdaspeed2 but you guys have been requesting things like a 200+ bhp engine, 4-wheel disc brakes, front-mounted intercooler, full body kit, and even AWD all for under $20k?! There's a reason the US Mazda2 doesn't have half the options the Europoean and even Canadian models do - Americans will not pay $25k+ for a car with the size/quality of the Mazda2. One has to only look at the Mini to see what kind of cost you'd be looking at if Mazda made a 2 with even half the things requested. I've said this in another thread but the best idea for a MS2 would be the following:
1. Same 1.5L direct-injected engine with a small GT20-ish turbo and no intercooler (not needed with small turbo) putting out 150 bhp
2. Retuned ECU
3. Slightly lower, stiffer springs and matched shock absorbers
4. Stiffer front swaybar and rear torsion bar
5. Front strut tower bar
6. Obligatory appearance upgrade (wheels, body kit, interior accents, etc.)
All this and you're easily looking at a 2 that is ~$20k
That being said, I'd still trade my '11 2 Touring with 1500 miles for a new MS2 in a heartbeat.
I think this is all right on, except I have to think we'd see rear disks as well. It's just a hard proposition to sell a "performance" anything with drum brakes.
the more i'm thinking about it though, I'm really having a hard time thinking of how this thing would work from a business model standpoint. before the MS3, mazdaspeed models were all low-volume specialty models, and i'd heard mazda wasn't super happy with how those went overall. Now that the Speed3 is a regular fixture, i wouldn't think they'd want to put another low-volume limited-edition model out under the Mazdaspeed Banner, which says to me that whatever they put out they're going to want to be the top-of-the-line for that model.
That said, assuming 150-160 hp for $19k-$20k, the only things even remotely in that space are the Veloster and the CR-Z. The Speed2 would beat the pants off both of them performance-wise, but the cabin's on both of them are much more driver-oriented. (if you haven't sat in them, you should. The Veloster reminded me a bit of my old RX-8 on the inside. you very much feel like you're sitting in a sports car... until you start driving it.) Also, they both beat the 2 in fuel economy.
So, if a speed2 went to market, unless there was a major interior overhaul as well, you'd have a C-Segment (who's customers primary concerns are usually fuel economy and utility), which better performance numbers but worse MPG than the emerging small-sporty-efficient segment.
When the normal 2 came out there was more than one review that wondered whether Mazda could sell a car in this segment that was slightly less efficient with fewer options on the notion that it was more fun to drive. An MS2 would only make that split more disparate.
I guess it would fly the fun flag even more visibly though, so there's that... Also, if they're thinking of relaunching the Mazdaspeed Parts brand, this'd be a solid way to do it (i'm somewhat skeptical that they are, but it'd be great if they did).
I dunno. I'm just going to assume the SEMA car is a one-off tuner showcase and hopefully be very pleasantly surprised.
I'm not familiar with the European models because conversion rates aren't quite so simple but the other two models you listed (GTI and RSX-S) both MSRP at about $24k base and go up from there with options.I thought 200HP was reasonable too considering there are many euro hot hatches making 220-250HP for around $20,000. Renault, Citroen, and others. The GTI also has 200HP for $22,000 average new price. And RSX Type S/Civic Si have about 200HP and I think they were/are around $19,000 new. They are certainly more upscale than a Mazda 2 so it should not have any trouble staying under $20,000.
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i'd consider the GTI a Speed3 competitor. The RSX was closer to it, but the RSX-S was putting down 200hp and was much more premium. The Veloster has a turbo model coming out soon (there are rumors they're debuting it at SEMA as well), which would put the power fight back in Hyundai's corner.
i'd consider the GTI a Speed3 competitor. The RSX was closer to it, but the RSX-S was putting down 200hp and was much more premium. The Veloster has a turbo model coming out soon (there are rumors they're debuting it at SEMA as well), which would put the power fight back in Hyundai's corner.
Yeah thats what I am saying. The GTI/RSX are more upscale and compete with the larger Mazdaspeed 3 and Sentra SE-R. And along with the WRX, they all cost $20,000-27,000 brand new. Therefore, I think the Mazdaspeed 2 should cost under $20,000.
If Mazda brings the Speed2 to production, if we are lucky, Honda might fight back with a Fit Si, CRZ Si, and maybe the Yaris will come in a TRD version and the Versa will come in SE-R trim and Smart and Fiat will bring the Abarths. That would be awesome. I think they would all be good sellers and a new market in the U.S. will be born. All should cost at least $3,000 less than the the larger sport compacts.
I don't think it would be a step backwards. Power is power. The automotive press goes on and on about how advanced a new car has to be, but nothing really gets much better when it comes to measurible results. The "old" 2 liter makes 148 HP, plenty to make the Mazda2 rip. The new "technologically advanced" Skyactiv is only 155hp with all that fancy direct injection, so either one is fine with me as long as it doesn't ruin the price. Either one would get great mileage because the car still weighs nothing and the motor would barely have to be reved in daily driving. It would be like having a B20Z in an EF hatch. Torque with good gearing makes for great MPG's, even my 2008 Mustang GT got 26-27 highway MPG because it took little effort to get it moving.Well I suppose not everyone's requests were unreasonable. I'm not sure the 2.0L MZR would fit, but even if it did wouldn't that seem like a little of a step backwards in technology (vehicle dynamics, power vs. displacement, fuel consumption, etc.)? I agree with the disc brakes, but how many cars that have an MSRP for $16k have four-wheel disc brakes? Still would have been a nice option though. The thing about the turbo is that every "Mazdaspeed" vehicle has always been the base+turbo. Not saying Mazda wouldn't take a different path with the 2 (one just has to look at the production run of the MS3's) but I would think a N/A MS2 wouldn't be competitive due to fuel consumption, etc.
After that whole Mazdaspeed Protege thing and them being sort of unreliable, the idea of Mazda taking just a regular NA motor and sticking a turbo on it doesn't sit well with me. It would also have to run on premium gas, whereas a regular 2 liter would run on 87 octane, take a beating, cheap to repair, and easier to work on.
caption on the pic says "One of our most powerful turbocharged engines in our lightest platform. Nuff said!"
Pics here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mazdausa/6284000500/in/set-72157627859867679/
(the new front end on the Miata is wonderful!)
Pics here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mazdausa/6284000500/in/set-72157627859867679/
(the new front end on the Miata is wonderful!)
Yeah thats what I am saying. The GTI/RSX are more upscale and compete with the larger Mazdaspeed 3 and Sentra SE-R. And along with the WRX, they all cost $20,000-27,000 brand new. Therefore, I think the Mazdaspeed 2 should cost under $20,000.
If Mazda brings the Speed2 to production, if we are lucky, Honda might fight back with a Fit Si, CRZ Si, and maybe the Yaris will come in a TRD version and the Versa will come in SE-R trim and Smart and Fiat will bring the Abarths. That would be awesome. I think they would all be good sellers and a new market in the U.S. will be born. All should cost at least $3,000 less than the the larger sport compacts.
except the Veloster bases at $17,300 and the CR-Z bases at $19,545. hi-po versions would likely come in 2-3k more than a well-equipped version of base, which would put the veloster Turbo around $21k and the CR-Z Si (which i bet if they ever make never sees US soil) would be $23k-$24k, which puts them up with the speed3 and the GTI again (not to mention the civic Si, which is why i bet we never see the CR-Z Si.).
The Abarth 500 is a probably the closest competitor, which is coming to the states, but again I don't think anyone expects it to be anything other than a low-volume model.
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