Why get AWD?
- Thread starter Unobtanium
- Start date
▼ Spare Tire
Your Mazda has a temporary spare tire. The temporary spare tire is lighter and smaller than a conventional tire, and is designed only for emergency use and should be used only for VERY short periods. Temporary spare tires should NEVER be used for long drives or extended periods.
So maybe you cook your differential at 10 miles? Maybe 100 miles? I bet Mazda would never put a number on it and it looks like they haven't, but the fact remains that AWD is designed to allow for momentary differences in wheel speeds when the vehicle turns corners or spins a tire. But if the differential is forced to operate 100% of the time, even when driving straight because of different diameter tires, things will start to heat up. And the spare is 2.5" shorter! Maybe nothing actually breaks, maybe it does, or maybe the excessive heat and wear shows up to create problems at a later date.
But if you really need AWD, I'm sure these concerns and costs are worth it.
Your Mazda has a temporary spare tire. The temporary spare tire is lighter and smaller than a conventional tire, and is designed only for emergency use and should be used only for VERY short periods. Temporary spare tires should NEVER be used for long drives or extended periods.
So maybe you cook your differential at 10 miles? Maybe 100 miles? I bet Mazda would never put a number on it and it looks like they haven't, but the fact remains that AWD is designed to allow for momentary differences in wheel speeds when the vehicle turns corners or spins a tire. But if the differential is forced to operate 100% of the time, even when driving straight because of different diameter tires, things will start to heat up. And the spare is 2.5" shorter! Maybe nothing actually breaks, maybe it does, or maybe the excessive heat and wear shows up to create problems at a later date.
But if you really need AWD, I'm sure these concerns and costs are worth it.
GJ-Molestor
Banned
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- 2011 BMW 528i, 2015 Mazda 6, 1995 Nissan Maxima Manual
It's important to consider what sort of driving you do for reasons like this.
If your daily commute is a snow covered mountain, you'll want AWD.
If you drive on a straight highway daily and don't care about 0-60 torque converter rape, you probably don't need AWD.
what I'm trying to say is that FWD is more then good enough for just about any conditions.
No, AWD is not a replacement for snow tires during the winter months unless you're not concerned about turning or stopping.
A FWD cx-5 with good tires will easily out perform AWD with poor tires so keep this in mind. But if the options there, I guess may as well opt for it even though you don't actually need it?
Interesting read. Front tires wear faster on almost every type of vehicle because of wear from turning, weight, etc. If you always put the best tires on the back, do you ever rotate your tires? Even a new vehicle, after 10,000 miles, your rear tires will be better than the front, so you don't rotate because you want the best tires in back to avoid hydroplaning on a "large radius wet curve" as in their test? How about slowing down around curves when it's wet.
Sorry, but both Tirerack and Michelin (who provided the test track) have a significant financial gain if they can convince drivers to keep their best tires on the back, wearing out the front tires faster because of lack of rotation. And in this 2 tire situation where you put the best tires on back and leave the lower tread tires on front, what will that do to your mileage warranty since you obviously will never move those off the front from that point on?
Edit:
I didn't read the entire article. I in the very last sentences Tirerack has a solution, lol
Unfortunately this precludes the future possibility of ever rotating tires.
Once a pair of tires has been installed, the only way to escape being forced to drive on mismatched tires continually is to install a complete set of new tires (especially on front-wheel drive vehicles).
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- San Antonio, Texas
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- '15 CX-5 Miata AWD
Cool tidbit: The CX5 awd system (at least on 13-15) will allow ovesteer at high speed cornering if the angle isn't to great. I did it on a wet curve and a dry curve. But if the angle is to great it will noob it up for you and give you a brake effect.
GJ-Molestor
Banned
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- 2011 BMW 528i, 2015 Mazda 6, 1995 Nissan Maxima Manual
Yep, and that's exactly why they recommend that nonsense.
The tires on RWD cars wear in the rear quicker. The fronts will last quite a long time.
mazdadude
ZOOOOOOOOOM ZOOOOOOOOOM
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- '16.5 Mazda CX-5 Touring
So why do they provide a temp spare that is not the same diameter??? That is my question...
I would guess like they say for emergency use only over a VERY short distance. Otherwise call a tow truck or get a full size spare or a FWD.
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- Plano, Texas, USA
I agree with all of your points. I've always been putting the better tires at front until several years ago Discount Tire Store refused to do that for "safety" reason citing the Michelin article. I was fine with that and I rotated better tires to front by myself once I got home. (whistle)
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- Plano, Texas, USA
Exactly. With FWD you have no issue here as long as you put temp spare at rear. Nevertheless I still prefer a temp spare over a can of fix-a-flat which is messy to clean up!
Here spares are usually rated for up to 80km/h (49.7mp/h)
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- RDX Aspec Adv.
100k is just the tip of the ice-berg. Most of my vehicles go to 150-300k miles, and the ones at 150k, it's because I found buyers who were interested at very good prices, so why not?
If your car won't make it AT LEAST 200k without any major issues, I consider it a POS.
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- RDX Aspec Adv.
I found it to allow oversteer quite nicely.
That kind of sucks, although it's still better than run-flats. Our previous AWD cars have had robust spare tires of the proper diameter, such that if I flatted 200 miles away and just had to get home, I could drive home at 60 mph and not worry about it. Even the donut spare for my Focus ST isn't that much smaller than the other wheels.
Mazda's system does monitor the temp in the diff and I think it will put you into limp mode if it overheats.
Guys, the reason you put the best tires (tires with most tread depth) on the rear, is so that when it is raining, the rear tires will not hydroplane earlier than the front tires. If you put the best tires up front and your rear tires hydroplanes first, your car will oversteer or spin and this is harder to control for the general population. If you put the best tires on the rear, even if the front tires hydroplane, the rear tires will keep your car somewhat straight and this is easier to control/manage for the general population. This is a matter of safety and is not influenced by drivetrain (FWD, RWD or AWD).
As far tire rotation goes, especially for FWD, you just follow the recommended tire rotation schedule in the manual. Usually, if you follow that schedule, the tread depth differences between the tires on the front and back will be minimal. If the differences between the tires on the front and rear are greater than 2/32, this means that you have missed a tire rotation or you needed to be rotating the tires earlier. Anyway at this point you want the best tires on the rear and you just rotate the tires side to side. Once the front tires have worn out enough, you either replace all 4 tires, or you purchase just a pair of tires. If you replace just a pair of tires, then you move the rear tires to the front and you put the new pair of tires on the back.
As far tire rotation goes, especially for FWD, you just follow the recommended tire rotation schedule in the manual. Usually, if you follow that schedule, the tread depth differences between the tires on the front and back will be minimal. If the differences between the tires on the front and rear are greater than 2/32, this means that you have missed a tire rotation or you needed to be rotating the tires earlier. Anyway at this point you want the best tires on the rear and you just rotate the tires side to side. Once the front tires have worn out enough, you either replace all 4 tires, or you purchase just a pair of tires. If you replace just a pair of tires, then you move the rear tires to the front and you put the new pair of tires on the back.
GJ-Molestor
Banned
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- 2011 BMW 528i, 2015 Mazda 6, 1995 Nissan Maxima Manual
Ensure that the rear tires have enough grip so you don't oversteer, but make sure that the front tires don't have enough grip to stop steer or accelerate? Doesn't make any sense to me.
If you're a soccer mom with zero experience in controlling a vehicle, then I understand why you would want to limit oversteer but a driver with even decent experience can easily control a skid should the rear tires come around.
zero experience: emphasize on grip in the rear
experience: emphasize on grip all around, particularly the front tires which do all the world
RWD cars are balanced and the suspension/alignment is tuned to allow some oversteer. If you can't control it, drive carefully and always have good tires all around!
You're taking it to the extreme. If the tires don't have enough grip to stop, steer and accelerate, they shouldn't be on the car period. Doesn't matter what axle they are on and doesn't matter what the driving conditions are; they shouldn't be on the car in the first place.
Sure it does make sense. Let me say it again. If the tires with the most tread depth are on the rear, the rear tires won't break loose easily thereby keeping the car stable when the front tires hydroplane first. Imagine taking a corner on the highway while it is raining. If your rear tires hydroplane first, the rear tires break loose and you start spinning into the guard rail. From your posts on here, it sounds like you are a very capable driver. If you were driving that car, I bet you would easily control that slide and regain control of the car. But what if it was a regular person driving the car who is not as skilled as you, do you think they could have saved that spin? Most likely not.
So in that same scenario, what if the best tires were on the rear? While taking that corner, the front tires would hydroplane, but the rear tires will not and will keep the car somewhat straight. The result is a car that is easier to handle for a regular person. A regular person driving and encountering this scenario will most likely slow down (just by instinct) as soon as they notice the front tires hydroplaning and will easily keep control of the car. By the way, that's another reason for keeping the best tires on the rear. As a driver, it is harder to notice the rear tires hydroplaning than the front tires. So if your front tires hydroplane first, you have a better chance at correcting as opposed to the rear tires hydroplaning first.
Just a few days ago, I was behind a Mustang (with the live axle) on the highway. We were going 70 mph while it was raining. I was starting to increase my following distance because I was starting to have trouble seeing his brake lights. We approached a mild corner and all of a sudden the car was sideways and crashed into the barrier on the left, then bounced into the lanes in front of me. I had to go all the way from the left lane to the rightmost lane, thankfully no one was behind me at that time. I don't know what the state of the tires on the Mustang was, but I can't help but think that if the rear tires didn't break loose, the driver would have kept control and not crashed into the barrier.
I don't know what the statistics are, but I would bet, there are more soccer moms and regular drivers on the road that don't know what oversteer and understeer is, than skilled drivers. It is in our best interest to keep those drivers from getting into wrecks or losing control of their cars on the road.
GJ-Molestor
Banned
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- 2011 BMW 528i, 2015 Mazda 6, 1995 Nissan Maxima Manual
100% agree with your post. I did mention in my previous post that a driver with less experience should put their best tires on the rear axle, just like you mentioned.
However, I am starting to believe more and more that this theory is for tire companies to make more money because if the worn tires are on the front rather then the rear, they will need a replacement sooner thus making more money for these companies.
Based on your idea that the tires on your car should also have enough tread to grip the road safely, I think that the tires on the rear should have less tread (but still enough to not cause a skid and the tires on the front should have the most tread because they wear quicker and are important for overal vehicle control. This is how you prolong the life of your tires while still being safe rather then just allowing the tire companies to treat you like sheep and make more money off you.
Mustangs with a live rear axle.... what a joke. Those things are a damn death trap and I'm not surprised at all that one wiped out in front of you. The same thing happened in front of my friend with a camaro... in the dry. They're just not good handling RWD vehicles unlike a BMW.
Somewhat off topic, but before people go on and start bleating about how the Camaro grips harder then the m4, they should compare tire sizes between the two vehicles....
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- Plano, Texas, USA
Right on the Money!
This particular scenario involves cornering while hydroplaning. I don't know what other people's experiences have been, but in my case at least 95% of the time I've experienced hydroplaning I've been going straight. The moments where I've been closest to losing control happened when hitting unexpectedly deep puddles on the highway. In those cases, if the front wheels remain planted but the rear wheels are loose, you still have directional control to keep the car straight. The car behaves like a weathervane, the rears follow the fronts and there's no oversteer and no big deal. But if the front wheels break loose, you have no directional control and that could become a big deal if there's any angle between the direction of the wheels and the direction of vehicle travel, which could result in a sideways force from the water pushing the car further offline.
The other wet weather scenario that I think is more important is braking. I suspect that failing to get the car slowed or stopped in time is a bigger cause of accidents than oversteer. For best braking performance, the best tires should be on the front. This is especially true in snow, which for those of us who live in the North is more of a concern than hydroplaning. Oversteer in the snow is (for me) relatively harmless and very easy to correct, understeer is worse, and traction while braking is of the highest importance.
