Where should my $$ go?

[tang]

I like to autoX a few times a year here in South Dakota. I want to run the full series this year. I want to improve the way my 2003 Protege DX handles. What would you suggest for the best upgrades for the bucks?

So far I have the Eibach Prokit, and 17 inch Konigs on 205/40/17 tires, no other handling related mods.

Thanks!

PS This post was in the suspension section, but I moved it myself to here.
________

 

[TinmanMS6]

Smaller, lighter wheels and wider tires will make more difference than anything you do to the suspension.

 

[Rogue]

Do you care about what class you run? If you're just doing suspension, look into a set of Tokigo struts and the AWR rear sway bar. I think you'll stay in STS.

 

[Auto-Xer]

Tires are the most important upgrade to the car. Then quality dampers, relatively stiff springs (most 'drop' springs are too soft for serious autocrossing) , sways, camber adjustment etc.

GRM did an article recently where they took Per's Saabaru and showed it's progressions with various mods...starting at stock and ending up, as I recall, with a mild STX car. Good read.

 

[tang]

Thank you all for the input! Keep em comming! (first)

I want to stay in the STS class for sure.

Tires are the most important upgrade to the car. Then quality dampers, relatively stiff springs (most 'drop' springs are too soft for serious autocrossing) , sways, camber adjustment etc.

GRM did an article recently where they took Per's Saabaru and showed it's progressions with various mods...starting at stock and ending up, as I recall, with a mild STX car. Good read.

What kind of springs would you suggest that will drop the ride height and be stiff enough for a good run at autoX?

 

[benjpi]

Get the RB rear sway bar that came with the MP3/MSP. Stay away from the AWR unless you like noise & rust. Unless you run the AWR bar with the clamp inside the rear trailing link, the AWR bar is softer that the RB bar. (I'm an engineering geek, I ran both bars through FEA. I'll post the deflection pictures if anyone wants to see them)

Stock DX models may not have come with a rear sway bar, depending on year. Racing Beat doesn't recommend using their bar unless you have upgraded rear struts, the ears for the bar are too weak for the stiffer bar. Tokicos (mazda's partner for MP3 development) have the stronger mounts on them already.

 

[Tom03es]

Tires/wheels and seat time.

 

[aMaff]

What kind of springs would you suggest that will drop the ride height and be stiff enough for a good run at autoX?

Well...how extreme are you planning on going? Full on race car that you put up with because you have to on the street, or something more half way?

 

[TinmanMS6]

Well...how extreme are you planning on going? Full on race car that you put up with because you have to on the street, or something more half way?

800# springs
/thread

 

[turbolife]

Driver mod.

/thread

 

[Gobbracing]

Seat time, seat time, and more seat time. Even an Evolution school if you can.
Then:
- #1 Figure out your tire pressures front & rear
- tires
- Rear sway bar
- Shocks
- And the rest

When you'll start improving your car. Do one thing at a time. If you do many mods at once, you'll spend more time readjusting to your car than improving yourself behind the wheel.

I run competitively in STX in Montreal with my MSP with minimum mods that I did gradually (camber, AXR rear sway bar fix kit, RT-615s).
But I put the most time in improving myself first.
Only mods I'll do this year are wider wheels and tires.
It's fun to beat other cars that have a lot more mods than you in raw time.

 

[aMaff]

I don't see how that's valid. If you do a lot of things over time, you're constantly adjusting. If you do them all at once, it's a bigger adjustment, but once you're comfortable with it you're set.

 

[mazdaspeedwerx]

401k, stockmarket, ira, housing/home improvements, college fund for kid, retirement, savings account, under a matress, send it to me for any of the above.

 

[Rogue]

Seat time, seat time, and more seat time. Even an Evolution school if you can.
Then:
- #1 Figure out your tire pressures front & rear
- tires
- Rear sway bar
- Shocks
- And the rest

When you'll start improving your car. Do one thing at a time. If you do many mods at once, you'll spend more time readjusting to your car than improving yourself behind the wheel.

I run competitively in STX in Montreal with my MSP with minimum mods that I did gradually (camber, AXR rear sway bar fix kit, RT-615s).
But I put the most time in improving myself first.
Only mods I'll do this year are wider wheels and tires.
It's fun to be other cars that have a lot more mods than you in raw time.

I don't see how that's valid. If you do a lot of things over time, you're constantly adjusting. If you do them all at once, it's a bigger adjustment, but once you're comfortable with it you're set.

I kinda see what Gobbracing is saying. If you make 5 changes to your car at once, and the car isn't doing what you want to do, you're not sure which change to adjust. On the other hand, if you do one change, and drive the car getting a feel for it, adjusting it to do what you want to do, then when you make your next change you know exactly what it is or isn't doing.

Example 1:
I just installed new adjustable struts, coilover springs, camber adjusters, sway bars, and messed with the toe. Now the car oversteers in sweeper and pushes in tight turns, whereas before the car was predictable. Which modification caused the sudden change?

Example 2:
I have my car and it drives great, but I want to make it handle better. I install new struts with coilover springs, set the ride height being sure to check for suspension travel. I autocross the car a couple times, and it feels great. It corners flat and smooth, but still seems to push. So I'll upgrade the swaybars. That really helps with the under/oversteer issues, but I'd like to carry more speed in the corners. Camber plates are installed, and camber is set with a toe adjustment. WOW!! I've never been able to stay flat-footed through that turn before...

Make sense?

 

[aMaff]

Yes, but I think for a novice driver having a constantly changing platform may not be the best thing.

 

[Rogue]

But if the Novice is changing at the same rate as the car, then it's beneficial. As opposed to a Novice driver trying to catch up to the potential of their car, which doesn't take into affect if it has been "tuned" correctly.

 

[Gobbracing]

As a solo2 instructor, I've seen many novice drivers come to our annual solo2 school with modified cars that they cannot even drive close to their full potential even when they're tuned properly because of their inexperience behind the wheel.
I had a student with a very good WRX, STX base set-up, well tuned suspension and good tires. But his lack of experience behind the wheel kept him in the bottom of the standings. What was kind of frustrating for him was that he was being beaten by other novice drivers with full OEM cars on OEM tires who were working on their driving technique.

I've been into solo2 full time since 1992 and I'm just passing my past experience to you guys.

 

[tang]

As a solo2 instructor, I've seen many novice drivers come to our annual solo2 school with modified cars that they cannot even drive close to their full potential even when they're tuned properly because of their inexperience behind the wheel.
I had a student with a very good WRX, STX base set-up, well tuned suspension and good tires. But his lack of experience behind the wheel kept him in the bottom of the standings. What was kind of frustrating for him was that he was being beaten by other novice drivers with full OEM cars on OEM tires who were working on their driving technique.

I've been into solo2 full time since 1992 and I'm just passing my past experience to you guys.

Thanks for the advise! (thumb) The local autoX club is talking about putting on a school in spring. If they do i will defiantly be attending.

What do you recommend for tires? I think I might start with that on my stock 15 inch rims.

 

[TinmanMS6]

Falken Azenis RT-615s and Bridgestone RE01Rs are the favorite tires for STS. The Azenis are cheaper and last longer, so those would probably be a good place for you to start. There are a couple of new up-and-coming tire choices for this year, but I ran HS last year and I'm running CSP (race-compound tires) this year, so I haven't been paying that much attention.

 

[tang]

Falken Azenis RT-615s and Bridgestone RE01Rs are the favorite tires for STS. The Azenis are cheaper and last longer, so those would probably be a good place for you to start. There are a couple of new up-and-coming tire choices for this year, but I ran HS last year and I'm running CSP (race-compound tires) this year, so I haven't been paying that much attention.

Does anyone know what tire sizes would be OK for my stock 15in DX Rims? I can't find any RT-615s in my stock size of 195/55 15s...

Thanks!