What is the effect of longer sway bar links, all else equal?

[616Nickel]

Hi,

First post to the forum, and I did a quick search, but didn't find the answer to this particular question. Apologies if it's an obvious one.

I just picked up a 2002 Protege5 in pretty good shape, but one of the things that the mechanic pointed out during the inspection was that the rear sway bar links needed replacing. (And yes, there is a slight clunk in the rear, so I'm hoping this will fix it.)

Anyway, I picked up some Beck/Arnley 101-5069 rear sway bar links from Lordco. Then I cut out one of the links that came with the car, and it turns out that the old (stock?) links are 6.5" stud-to-stud, while the Beck/Arnleys are 7.5". According to all the online resources, the Beck/Arnleys are compatible with my Pro5, so I think I'm going to put them in, but I'm wondering what effect this will have on the suspension.

The car hasn't been lowered or modified in any obvious way, and I'm not planning to do anything radical to it. So, all else being equal, what effect will lengthening the rear sway bar link have?

 

[hat1018]

As far as I know, it will lessen the effectiveness of the sway bar. The ends of the sway bar should be level/neutral with the car on the ground.

 

[616Nickel]

Thanks. Well, it turns out that the 7.5" sway bar links are always in contact with the rear control arms (or whatever the rearmost transverse suspension members are called), so no, they don't fit, despite the fact that all the resources I've looked at claim that they're compatible.

Ah well. Back to Lordco to see if they have any alternatives.

 

[BRIAN_MP5T]

Adjustable links help to tune the bar after is has been lowered.

The lowered car makes the bar move from optimal... you can adjust it back..

 

[616Nickel]

Adjustable links help to tune the bar after is has been lowered.

The lowered car makes the bar move from optimal... you can adjust it back..

Right, but these aren't adjustable links: They're a fixed length of 7.5" compared to the 6.5" links I removed. I've established that they don't fit properly; now I'm trying to figure out why the manufacturer and all vendors indicate these are compatible.

One clue is to be that there seem to be TWO varieties of fixed-length links: The shorter ones for "Sport Suspension" and the longer ones for "Except Sport Suspension". But as far as I know, ALL Pro5s came with sport suspension. Maybe the longer ones are meant to be mated to a specific sway bar? If so, I can't see it listed anywhere.

 

[Teeson]

I think sport suspension means aftermarket. Or even racing beat or something dealer available. When I got my BC coilovers the fronts came with shorter sway bars. Or I think so.. lol it's been so long.

 

[njaremka]

"Sport Suspension" according to mazda is the ES and Pro5 stock set-up. "Non-Sport Suspension" is the MSP / MP3 stock suspension. counter-intuitive, i know, but thats how it is.

best option is to get endlinks from the dealer with your VIN number. second best, is to remove one of your existing endlinks and take it to the parts store to make sure they give you the right link.

 

[616Nickel]

"Sport Suspension" according to mazda is the ES and Pro5 stock set-up. "Non-Sport Suspension" is the MSP / MP3 stock suspension. counter-intuitive, i know, but thats how it is.

best option is to get endlinks from the dealer with your VIN number. second best, is to remove one of your existing endlinks and take it to the parts store to make sure they give you the right link.

That answers it. Thank you! So I would need the longer sway bar endlink if I was retrofitting an MSP/MP3 sway bar onto my car--presumably they have shorter sway bar ends to make room for the longer endlinks--but for the stock sway bar, the shorter endlinks do the trick.

The problem is that all the auto parts resources (including the parts dealers' databases) list the longer 7.5"/190mm endlinks as compatible with the 2002 Pro5, so I'm not sure having the VIN would have helped. But on my second visit, I did take the old 6.25"/160mm (stud-to-stud) endlinks to compare lengths, and was able to find a matching set.

So, two lessons from this relatively minor inconvenience:

1. The stock Protege5 sway bar is designed to mate with the 6.25"/160mm endlinks, as long as you're not lowering the car or something like that.
2. Be careful with the lengths indicated in parts databases, since these are sometimes the overall length of the endlink, rather than the (more critical) stud-to-stud length.

Thanks again, njaremka!

 

[njaremka]

That answers it. Thank you! So I would need the longer sway bar endlink if I was retrofitting an MSP/MP3 sway bar onto my car--presumably they have shorter sway bar ends to make room for the longer endlinks--but for the stock sway bar, the shorter endlinks do the trick.

you got it!

The problem is that all the auto parts resources (including the parts dealers' databases) list the longer 7.5"/190mm endlinks as compatible with the 2002 Pro5, so I'm not sure having the VIN would have helped. But on my second visit, I did take the old 6.25"/160mm (stud-to-stud) endlinks to compare lengths, and was able to find a matching set.

the "Good" dealers will be able to use your VIN number to find the actual mazda part number for the correct endlink. the less-good dealers won't bother.

So, two lessons from this relatively minor inconvenience:

1. The stock Protege5 sway bar is designed to mate with the 6.25"/160mm endlinks, as long as you're not lowering the car or something like that.
2. Be careful with the lengths indicated in parts databases, since these are sometimes the overall length of the endlink, rather than the (more critical) stud-to-stud length.

Thanks again, njaremka!

no problem!

 

[jaman_ca]

Perfect timing for this post as I'm just about to do the same thing. Looking at the various parts websites had me all confused about the length that I needed. The dealer wanted $45 for each end link...seems pricey to me. But UAP NAPA has them for $50 but are willing to drop to $37.99 (goes to show that it's always possible to negotiate). Next will be Canadian Tire.

 

[616Nickel]

Perfect timing for this post as I'm just about to do the same thing. Looking at the various parts websites had me all confused about the length that I needed. The dealer wanted $45 for each end link...seems pricey to me. But UAP NAPA has them for $50 but are willing to drop to $37.99 (goes to show that it's always possible to negotiate). Next will be Canadian Tire.

I checked with Canadian Tire too, and they had Moog rear endlinks in the correct length (6.25” stud-to-stud), but at $60-something each. The labelling is somewhat misleading on these, since they are listed as “kits”, but there is only one per box.

I ended up buying mine from Autopartsway.ca (P/N CTR1759567), for about $34 each, and I usually receive parts from them within 2 days of ordering. If you go this route, note that they provide free shipping for orders over $75, so it is well worth your while to add something else to the order to bring the total up. I added one of those snap-on convex rear-view mirrors for $10, and paid about $10 less than it would have cost for just the two endlinks plus shipping.

Some other quick notes for anyone looking at doing this:

- You can drive the car without the rear endlinks, so if you have trouble finding the right ones it's not a showstopper.
- Removing the old endlinks was a major PITA: Penetrant, Wrench, propane, hacksaw, angle grinder, file. Took a couple of hours of solid work with the car jacked up. (I really have to buy an impact wrench.)
- Tip: If the nuts are frozen and you don't have an impact wrench, cut the endlink in two through the middle, pry the two ends off the balljoint, and use vise grips to hold the ball end. That might give you a better chance. I figured this out near the end, and it made a big difference.
- I installed my new endlinks in about 10 minutes, without having to jack up the car. Use anti-seize!

 

[jaman_ca]

I checked with Canadian Tire too, and they had Moog rear endlinks in the correct length (6.25” stud-to-stud), but at $60-something each. The labelling is somewhat misleading on these, since they are listed as “kits”, but there is only one per box.

I ended up buying mine from Autopartsway.ca (P/N CTR1759567), for about $34 each, and I usually receive parts from them within 2 days of ordering. If you go this route, note that they provide free shipping for orders over $75, so it is well worth your while to add something else to the order to bring the total up. I added one of those snap-on convex rear-view mirrors for $10, and paid about $10 less than it would have cost for just the two endlinks plus shipping.

Some other quick notes for anyone looking at doing this:

- You can drive the car without the rear endlinks, so if you have trouble finding the right ones it's not a showstopper.
- Removing the old endlinks was a major PITA: Penetrant, Wrench, propane, hacksaw, angle grinder, file. Took a couple of hours of solid work with the car jacked up. (I really have to buy an impact wrench.)
- Tip: If the nuts are frozen and you don't have an impact wrench, cut the endlink in two through the middle, pry the two ends off the balljoint, and use vise grips to hold the ball end. That might give you a better chance. I figured this out near the end, and it made a big difference.
- I installed my new endlinks in about 10 minutes, without having to jack up the car. Use anti-seize!

I tried today and FAILED. I have an electric impact wrench and it just spun the nut. I then used the 5mm allen key and vice grips on the bolt. That worked for a few revolutions until the hole where the allen key goes got stripped. Now I need to go and get a angle grinder or a really big sledge hammer . I'm not trying the other side until I get proper weapons.

 

[616Nickel]

I tried today and FAILED. I have an electric impact wrench and it just spun the nut. I then used the 5mm allen key and vice grips on the bolt. That worked for a few revolutions until the hole where the allen key goes got stripped. Now I need to go and get a angle grinder or a really big sledge hammer . I'm not trying the other side until I get proper weapons.

I know the feeling. Since the endlink studs are not actually threaded into the swaybar ends, they are free to turn along with the nut, and the allen socket on the end of the stud is a pitifully weak means of holding the stud stationary.

Try what I suggested in my previous post: Cut clean through the midsection of the endlink, so that you have two half endlinks. It is then pretty easy to pry the half-endlinks off the balljoints at each end. Once the balljoints are exposed, use a good set of vise grips to hold on to them while you work on the nut. Once the vise grips have bitten into the balljoint, they hold pretty well.

Another alternative is to do what I did before I figured out the above trick, though I do not recommend it, due to the risk of damaging something close by: Use an angle grinder to cut through the nut as close to the sway bar as you can, then grind and file away until the stud and nut come apart.

 

[240rb]

just wanted to show what i used. got these from rockauto, very impressed with the quality. way nicer then what i expected.
MEVOTECH Part # MK80868 {#K80868, MS76810} Stabilizer Bar Link Kit LENGTH 7.25"; Rear $17.06
MEVOTECH Part # MK80258 {#K80258} Stabilizer Bar Link Kit Front $14.54

 

[meGrimlock]

just wanted to post a thx for the advice here. i ended up rounding a nut and twisting a 5mm allen wrench like a DNA helix, still couldnt get the end links off. didn't have a locking pliers worth a damn that would hold it still. looks like i'll have to cut them.

btw. those mevotech endlinks look like theyre taking a play out of the moog handbook. thicker bar and grease fittings, they look like the escape endlinks. mevotech is also using similar part numbers to moog which means they could be sharing some manufacturing processes too.

 

[SCRYPTmail]

I know this topic quite old, but I just came home from solid 5 hours of wrenching, beating and sawing this damn link.
May be it will help someone later is what I figure out: is to leave sway link as is, but cut nut in half from end towards sway bar and if its not moving as you saw half way, just give some good hit with chisel.