Supercharger vs. Turbo
- Thread starter mp3girly
- Start date
Supercharger's mostly tend to use belts, gears to drive a turbine. Turbo chargers tend to use exhaust gases from the engine to drive a turbine.
Now you're probably wondering "what the hell is a turbine". A turbine is the fan driven by the engines exhaust gases which exit through the exhaust manifold.
Now to answer the question as to which is better. That all depends on where you want your power to be. Superchargers, being the they are driven by the engine crank, belts and pulleys, are "usually" free of lag and "usually" produce power as soon as you blip the throttle. Turbo's on the other hand being that they're driven by the engine's exhaust gases, tend to produce power once you get to a certain point in the engine revband. I can't really say which is better, but being that a custom turbo kit is easier to design, I'd have to say turbo...That and with a turbo, you'll get cool, PSSSSHHHH of the Blow off valve.
Hope that helped out a little.
Now you're probably wondering "what the hell is a turbine". A turbine is the fan driven by the engines exhaust gases which exit through the exhaust manifold.
Now to answer the question as to which is better. That all depends on where you want your power to be. Superchargers, being the they are driven by the engine crank, belts and pulleys, are "usually" free of lag and "usually" produce power as soon as you blip the throttle. Turbo's on the other hand being that they're driven by the engine's exhaust gases, tend to produce power once you get to a certain point in the engine revband. I can't really say which is better, but being that a custom turbo kit is easier to design, I'd have to say turbo...That and with a turbo, you'll get cool, PSSSSHHHH of the Blow off valve.
Hope that helped out a little.
You can get alot of power out of both, but turbos are better cause all you have to do to change the boost is either turn a screw on the wastegate or get a boost controller, then you can change the boost from the drivers seat. With a supercharger you have to change the pulley to a different diameter to change the boost.
What is better is a subjective question really. What is better for one may not be better for everyone else. Here is my take on the two since they have both been pretty much explained.
For people who want more power down low for every day type driving, you are going to like the supercharger. No lag, just instant response!! On the other hand, if you want more ultimate power potential or power up top, you are going to like the turbocharger. All turbos produce some turbo lag, but if matched up properly with your engine and design, the lag can be reduced to a minimum with say full spool up just above 3000 rpm.
So, with superchargers, you are limited to upgrading with lightweight pulleys or some kind of water injection system. With turbo, the upgrades are endless, but there are definitely trade-offs.
So, once you know these basics for the two, you can decide which is better for you!!
For people who want more power down low for every day type driving, you are going to like the supercharger. No lag, just instant response!! On the other hand, if you want more ultimate power potential or power up top, you are going to like the turbocharger. All turbos produce some turbo lag, but if matched up properly with your engine and design, the lag can be reduced to a minimum with say full spool up just above 3000 rpm.
So, with superchargers, you are limited to upgrading with lightweight pulleys or some kind of water injection system. With turbo, the upgrades are endless, but there are definitely trade-offs.
So, once you know these basics for the two, you can decide which is better for you!!
In 4 cylinder engines, about the most power I have seen from a supercharger is ~400 HP @ the wheels with a B16A (Honda). Thats not to say you can't get more out of a supercharger, I am sure you can, I just haven't seen it.
With a turbo, I have seen the same engine (B16A) produce ~1100 HP @ the wheels. Yes you can get that much power out of a 4 cylinder, if anyone doesn't believe me I will dig up the magazine
With a turbo, I have seen the same engine (B16A) produce ~1100 HP @ the wheels. Yes you can get that much power out of a 4 cylinder, if anyone doesn't believe me I will dig up the magazine
7
70
OceanPark:
If you have a roots type blower (supercharger) it's rather difficult to put an intercooler in there since the the blower sits right on the intake manifold. The Vortech type supercharger is more like a turbo so, it's a little easier to get an intercooler in there. I thought if you running about 8 psi or less an intercooler isn't really needed, some cars from the factory running that don't have one (DSM Eclipse type cars). I thought.
If you have a roots type blower (supercharger) it's rather difficult to put an intercooler in there since the the blower sits right on the intake manifold. The Vortech type supercharger is more like a turbo so, it's a little easier to get an intercooler in there. I thought if you running about 8 psi or less an intercooler isn't really needed, some cars from the factory running that don't have one (DSM Eclipse type cars). I thought.
Legacy GTR
Member
Superchargers are good at making torque, thus the good throttle response. But realitive to a turbo they are not as good at top end HP. Both can be very realiable/safe. You won't get more then 8-9 psi out of a turbo on a NA engine without changing the engine internals. 5-6psi is more realistic. What's the compression on a mp3? The higher it is the less boost you can run. I would reccomend an intercooler with ANY turbo, especially if you run more then 4psi or live in a hot climate.
ChrisS-DSM's do have small intercoolers. Look behind the passenger fog light.
ChrisS-DSM's do have small intercoolers. Look behind the passenger fog light.
To exspand on the already covered definitionof teh turbo, it is a setup that takes the exhaust gases and plugs them into a turbocharger, spinning its turbine, which inturn compresses the air comming into teh engine through your intake. No when air is compressed it gets hot as do all things "thermal exspansion" and with an increas in temp, you again lose power, but before it goes into the intake minfold piping hot, you can run it thought an intercooler. May it be an air to air or water to air, but the idea is it gets colder. Now we have compressed cold air! Being compressed it hasmore what? thats right O2, which burns very well haha Nitous is O2 for example. No when the air pumps thgouth teh engine it flys out through teh exhaust and powers the same unit that compressed it... Gotta love it. While the Supercharger runs of the main pully in the car, taking away some of the power, but giving it back and then some in the long run. Now most superchargers like Jackson Racings are roots type blowers, while companies like vortech make a turbine basd much like a turbo! Now into the decision making.When looking into getting a turbo or spercharger setup, one has to take into account reliablity and ease. The supercharger being a self contained unit demands almost zero attention, while the turbo, is a multi facited piece that needs alot of attention and not to mention $$$! For the supercharger, there is the blower, belts and piping. But the turbo requires alot of pieces to get up and runing. Depending on the size you might need blow off valves, wastgates, if not internal, and an intercooler is standard if your going to get any real power out of your turbo. But let us not forget the worst part of our cars!! The exhaust manifold. The tubes that come out from teh engine and take with it the exhaust gases. If anyone has been brave enough to take off the heat shield, you will see mazdas hidden monster. It is a tangled maze of crap, and to create a propper header for it iss let alone impossible let alone a turbo manifold. Now you can get them custom created, but since the root of that problem is due to the catalitic comverter, you will ahev to replace it so as to not make the car smog illegal. As of now the only people that make turbo kits for the mazda 4' that i know of are http://www.knightturbos.com/
I havent used them so i can give no imput there. And as for superchargers, i dont know of any being made. So if you have the cash, a good idea would be to but your own turbo, and buy an intercooler, and have a shop create the piping for you! The two ideas are preatty realistic, but in my opinion for the FS a smaller turbo would be the best way to go. Minimal lag, and it you get it pumping out all it can, you can just swap the turbo itself. Sorry about all the typo's its dark and im not a great touch typer. But hope this helped!! And good luck!
For the supercharger, there is the blower, belts and piping. But the turbo requires alot of pieces to get up and runing. Depending on the size you might need blow off valves, wastgates, if not internal, and an intercooler is standard if your going to get any real power out of your turbo. But let us not forget the worst part of our cars!! The exhaust manifold. The tubes that come out from teh engine and take with it the exhaust gases. If anyone has been brave enough to take off the heat shield, you will see mazdas hidden monster. It is a tangled maze of crap, and to create a propper header for it iss let alone impossible let alone a turbo manifold. Now you can get them custom created, but since the root of that problem is due to the catalitic comverter, you will ahev to replace it so as to not make the car smog illegal. As of now the only people that make turbo kits for the mazda 4' that i know of are http://www.knightturbos.com/ I havent used them so i can give no imput there. And as for superchargers, i dont know of any being made. So if you have the cash, a good idea would be to but your own turbo, and buy an intercooler, and have a shop create the piping for you! The two ideas are preatty realistic, but in my opinion for the FS a smaller turbo would be the best way to go. Minimal lag, and it you get it pumping out all it can, you can just swap the turbo itself. Sorry about all the typo's its dark and im not a great touch typer. But hope this helped!! And good luck!
I'm sorry, but that is wrong. Granted, you have a big increase in power, but lets not fool ourselves here, its hardly a Hennessey Viper. You may have to relearn how to launch the car so as to avoid wheel hop or too much spinning, but you certainly won't be spinning uncontrollably anytime you pounce on the gas.
Second of all, if the turbo isn't spooling, then you aren't moving anywhere quickly!! Now, if you mean its just normal before it kicks in and thats what you meant by get moving, then I understand what you mean.
BTW, good write up P5Magic. You won't find much better of a writeup without getting too technical guys!! Soak it in!!
[ 11-14-2001: Message edited by: subywan-kenobi ]
7
70
Legacy GTR:
Thanks, I wasn't sure if they put one in there or not...I know on the Audi/VW 1.8T's they did, and when I typed I was thinking that DSM did but I couldn't remember.
Thanks, I wasn't sure if they put one in there or not...I know on the Audi/VW 1.8T's they did, and when I typed I was thinking that DSM did but I couldn't remember.
Yeah, good analogy Antoine, streetable power vs. all out. Superchargers are very streetable even in high hp apps, while turbos cannot be considered practical except in their basic forms, like stock DSMs, RX-7, Supra, or WRXs. All cars that are very easy going in stock form, but once you start adding on to the turbo, the gains can increase exponentially and become very unmanageable.
Sorry to be off topic, but this is for Legacy GTR. My roomate here has a 2000 Leg, and he needs a turbo in it bad, where did you get yours, and what was the price?? If it was a kit. Thanks alot, and all other links to tuning parts would be appreciated. Thanks alot, And guys keep up the good work. HAHA
but this is for Legacy GTR. My roomate here has a 2000 Leg, and he needs a turbo in it bad, where did you get yours, and what was the price?? If it was a kit. Thanks alot, and all other links to tuning parts would be appreciated. Thanks alot, And guys keep up the good work. HAHA mazdamp3_18
Member
- :
- 06 gti, 06 evo IX
hey p5magic,
legasy gtr is in my class and i introduced him to this site. ill talk to him today and ill either find out for you or he will post or email you about it. i think it might be a kit but some custom work has to be done.
Chris
legasy gtr is in my class and i introduced him to this site. ill talk to him today and ill either find out for you or he will post or email you about it. i think it might be a kit but some custom work has to be done.
Chris
Legacy GTR
Member
i-club is the heaven of Subaru. I could not have come close to putting a turbo in without the site. I have a custom setup that uses the 91-94 Legacy Turbo parts (some of them) It's run me 2500-3000 big ones. That's including gauges and the like. There are a lot of variable that will make a difference in cost. If your friend did turbo his Legacy it would be the first 99-02 that I know of. Subaru changed quite a few things in 99 so he would have to do reasearch on all of it. I've done countless hours of reasearch. Depending on how much he has to spend he could do a custom kit like mine (prolly the cheapest) or goto www.vishnuperformance.com and talk to Shiv. His kits can run over 8 grand but it is by far THE best money you'll spend on your car.
Have him search around i-club for a while. Hope this helps, if you want more info on my setup i'm more then happy to tell.
As for the TT option, as far as I know nobody has converted an NA to at Twin Turbo. There is hardly enough room for 1. That's why it's taking me so long to install it. The biggest problem is all the emissions stuff, It just get's in the way.
Have him search around i-club for a while. Hope this helps, if you want more info on my setup i'm more then happy to tell.
As for the TT option, as far as I know nobody has converted an NA to at Twin Turbo. There is hardly enough room for 1. That's why it's taking me so long to install it. The biggest problem is all the emissions stuff, It just get's in the way.
