Sport23's MSP build thread

[Protege17]

Sub for a sick build! forsure awesome man.

 

[Dpwhitehead1]

I looked at your placement of the J/S knock sensor.. does it detect knock there? I need to install one and if it works, I'm all for it.

 

[Sport23]

Sub for a sick build! forsure awesome man.

Thanks man. Once I get the car running a little more consistently I'll get it on the dyno to see what the actual gains are. The seat of the pants feel is awesome though. This is how the car should have come!

I looked at your placement of the J/S knock sensor.. does it detect knock there? I need to install one and if it works, I'm all for it.

The sensor definitely picks up knock there. From what I have read mounting the sensor low on the block is best so that is does not pick up as much valve train noise. I did have one issue during the initial set up of the J&S. You are supposed to adjust the sensitivity while cruising down the highway until the J&S starts triggering due to engine noise and then back off the sensitivity a little. My J&S never pulled any timing while cruising even with the sensitivity maxed. It does however pick up some knock on full throttle/boost runs and when the car is loaded down.

John @ J&S may have some recommendations; all I can say is that the sensor does work in this location.

 

[Dpwhitehead1]

Thanks man. Once I get the car running a little more consistently I'll get it on the dyno to see what the actual gains are. The seat of the pants feel is awesome though. This is how the car should have come!



The sensor definitely picks up knock there. From what I have read mounting the sensor low on the block is best so that is does not pick up as much valve train noise. I did have one issue during the initial set up of the J&S. You are supposed to adjust the sensitivity while cruising down the highway until the J&S starts triggering due to engine noise and then back off the sensitivity a little. My J&S never pulled any timing while cruising even with the sensitivity maxed. It does however pick up some knock on full throttle/boost runs and when the car is loaded down.

John @ J&S may have some recommendations; all I can say is that the sensor does work in this location.

"
good to know. thanks. I asked john and he provided me with just about no information. So you tapped that area there with a helicoil kit and inserted a bolt?

 

[Sport23]

"
good to know. thanks. I asked john and he provided me with just about no information. So you tapped that area there with a helicoil kit and inserted a bolt?

I 'cheated' a lot with my knock sensor install. I did not drill, tap or even use an install tool with my helicoil. I bought a 5/15 (iirc) helicoil because is was sold separately and seemed to fit an M8 bolt. I used skinny set of needle nose to screw in the helicoil and everything has been holding tight since then.

 

[Sport23]

Long time no update. The car has been running very well but I really do need to retune it. I haven't tuned it for my ethonal mix and it shows! My dyno last week showed horrible AFR. When my tune is fixed and it's not 107 degrees I should have some better numbers to show.

 

[bwlknsn91]

How long you been running 11psi on stock internals? I've heard stock internals can't handle going over 200hp, but not sure how true that is.

 

[Sport23]

I've been running 9psi (it spikes between 10-10.5 usually) for a little over 6 months now. I usually hear 210-250whp on stock internals depending who you ask. From what I've seen the timing is too advanced in the midrange. I get knock in high load situations in midrange rpms i.e. accelerating up hill on the highway in 5th (not in boost btw.) Once I get my tune dialed in I'll see if I need to pull midrange timing with my J&S. For now I am running a 2:1 ratio of 91 and E85 and the J&S pulls timing whenever it detects knock.

 

[Spiced MSP]

pretty good info here

 

[bwlknsn91]

I've been running 9psi (it spikes between 10-10.5 usually) for a little over 6 months now. I usually hear 210-250whp on stock internals depending who you ask. From what I've seen the timing is too advanced in the midrange. I get knock in high load situations in midrange rpms i.e. accelerating up hill on the highway in 5th (not in boost btw.) Once I get my tune dialed in I'll see if I need to pull midrange timing with my J&S. For now I am running a 2:1 ratio of 91 and E85 and the J&S pulls timing whenever it detects knock.

So I'm guessing if you have an unaggressive tune it should be safe? I don't know much about tuning as you can tell. Lol

 

[Sport23]

The problem is knowing how far you can push the engine. From what I have seen; you need to have some method to monitor knock. You can listen by ear or with tools; you can wire a knock sensor to a knock light, your stereo or a J&S Safeguard. IMO the J&S Safeguard is the best because it is the most sensative. If you do have knock you there are a few ways you can try to eliminate it. You can run a higher octane fuel (E85 is ~105 octane and has a cooling effect.) You can lower your boost or you can retard your timing.

To retard your timining you can either use an MPI tuner, SSFTC, AEM FIC, or any standalone. The J&S Safeguard can also retard midrange timing and/or retard timing based on boost pressure. I am using a SSAFC with a J&S Safeguard. The Safeguard is not the best method of retarding timing because it is not programmable; however, it is the only system that I know of that pulls timing based on knock.

** I am not associated with J&S in anyway.

 

[bwlknsn91]

The problem is knowing how far you can push the engine. From what I have seen; you need to have some method to monitor knock. You can listen by ear or with tools; you can wire a knock sensor to a knock light, your stereo or a J&S Safeguard. IMO the J&S Safeguard is the best because it is the most sensative. If you do have knock you there are a few ways you can try to eliminate it. You can run a higher octane fuel (E85 is ~105 octane and has a cooling effect.) You can lower your boost or you can retard your timing.

To retard your timining you can either use an MPI tuner, SSFTC, AEM FIC, or any standalone. The J&S Safeguard can also retard midrange timing and/or retard timing based on boost pressure. I am using a SSAFC with a J&S Safeguard. The Safeguard is not the best method of retarding timing because it is not programmable; however, it is the only system that I know of that pulls timing based on knock.

** I am not associated with J&S in anyway.

Ah, okay. So just as long as you have some way to turn your car in a safe manner, you should be fine?

 

[Sport23]

Definately tune it safe. You need a piggyback or standanlone, a wide band 02 sensor, and I would highly recommend something to monitor knock.

 

[spicy yellow]

Sport23, thanks for your comments on my post.

I looked over your mods and I'm scratching my head. How do you make so much power without the upgrade exhaust and little else. I can see the IC and CAI - the rest of the mods, I don't understand what they are or thought they were more for tuning (not power) like spark plugs, etc.

Do the intake and exhaust manifolds give that much power? Or does the EVO hood cool the engine bay (and IC) to give you more power? I saw you mentioned methanol in the thread but not listed in the mod list - is that the secret?

 

[Sport23]

I honestly didn't expect to make much more than 200whp due to the heat that day. All I can say is that my mods are working very well together. The intake, FMIC and IM all flow very well. I think they exhaust mani flows better than stock too. I'm running a couple extra lbs of boost and the SSAFC frees up some hp too.

The stock exhaust *may* be good for 250+ hp but it is hard to say because some of the bends (esp. the S and J pipes) are pretty tight. A more free flowing exhaust will be going on my car but I don't have the cat-back yet.

As for "secrets": I am not running methonal, I mixing E85 and premium to achieve about 96 octane fuel. My J&S was detecting knock and retarding my timing, 96 octane gets rid of almost all of the knock. I *think* that if I were not running the J&S and higher octane fuel that the MSP's knock sensor would pick up some knock and the would cost me some power.

It's hard to say but I am hoping for 220-225whp with the same setup, my tune fixed and dynoing on a cooler day.

 

[Sport23]

New parts

 

[CR3 Motorsports]

Sub!!!

Love the autograph. =)

 

[Sport23]

Thanks. I'm not sure if will show under MS3 seats or not.

 

[Sport23]

06 Mz6 front brake upgrade, SS brake and clutch line install, Brake and clutch speed bleeders, Tanabe DF210 springs, Front 05+ Ford Escape endlinks, AXR rear clunk fix.

Ignore the date on the photos, I didn't set it.

New 06 Mazda6 Stoptech Stage III front and rear rotor and pad kit from ProParts USA
Note: Rear Mazda6 pads do not work on the MSP, you need RX-7 style pads. If you call ProParts they can set you up with everything you need (including front calipers.) Their customer service was excellent. The guy I spoke with is a fellow MSP owner!

Front Mazda6 rotor. Mazda used straight vanes on the MSP and Mazda6 front rotors. Therefore they are not side specific (even though Stoptech puts L and R stickers on them.)

Rear Stoptech Mazda6 rotor.

Mazda 6 front caliper. Mine came from car-part but I later found out that ProParts can supply you with front calipers if you call. One stop shopping FTW!

Speed bleeders. These things are amazing! They should be standard equipment on every car.
The MSP uses SB7100 on all four calipers and on the clutch slave cylinder.
Mazda6's use SB100 on it's front calipers.

Mazda6 front calipers with SS lines installed.

Mazda6 front rotor on the left, MSP front rotor on the right.

Old vs New rotor

Stock rear brakes

There's your problem! Metal on metal is bad! 68k mi is too much for the factory pads.

New Stoptech pad (top), old factory pad (bottom). The MSP's factory pads do not have wear indicators.

Front spring, strut, sway bar endlink, rotor, caliper and brake line removed. Now I have room to work!

AXR rear clunk fix. I bought a new grease gun with a flexible hose and serviced the bushings with marine grease.

Rear strut, spring, endlink, rotor, caliper and brake line removed. AXR bracket installed.

Stock Tokicos and racing beat springs. New Tanabe DF210 springs.

Front strut re-installed with new spring, brake line, rotor and caliper installed. Who knows what's missing?

Rear strut re-installed with new spring, brake line, rotor and caliper installed.

05+ Ford Escape front endlink vs. MSP factory endlink. I lowered the car and measured for my new endlinks, the 05+ Escape endlink was almost the perfect length. It does limit the down travel of the front suspension. I'm going to run it anyway and see if it causes any problems. The front endlinks were also serviced with marine grease.

Front 06 Mz6 brakes with Stoptech slotted rotors

All done!

 

[Sport23]

Finally made it to an autocross event. It was so much fun! We had an MSP, MSM, MS3, and a Gen II MS3. If we only had an MS6!!! I had a great time. The car drove great and I feel like my times were pretty respectable. I will definitely be going back!