Anybody have any experience with either CustomMSP's SMIC kit or Turbohoses kit? Also, I'm looking into either the Turbohoses or Weapon R hardpiping kit to compliment the intercooler. Reason I'm not looking at FMIC's is due to the simple fact that I am really not interested in any cutting and adding another headaches to the equation. I'm also looking into different BOV/BPV variations I eventually plan on modding. Thanks!
SMIC & HardPipes
- Thread starter bwlknsn91
- Start date
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- 2003.5 Mazdaspeed Protege
I would still go fmic or ur gonna regret it later. Just get a kit that u dont have to cut.
I don't know why anyone would regret it. The CustomMSP SMIC is far superior over the stock. I run around in 115 degree weather and it was a night and day difference.
The hard pipes don't do anything at all. The plastic does not flex enough to make any sort of difference in response, nor would it really help or hurt cooling.
The plastic does tend to crack over time, and the hard pipes have the advantage of being able to customize things.
By going to hard pipes, I could run the boost source to the WGA right off the turbo outlet which is the single best mod I've ever done. They also will let you relocate the MAF which the car will also run much better with. You can then run a VTA BOV instead of the tiny stock bypass. You can still recirculate if you don't want the ricerific psssh. It also allows you to add IATs for monitoring or tuning. All of these are wonderful things, but the pipes themselves don't offer any performance advantage.
I chose not to go to a FMIC for a bunch of reasons. One, it blocks air to the condenser. The Protege A/C is weak and it barely passable on those 115 degree days. Two, it is more volume of air for the turbo to pressurize before the IM sees the boost. This translates to slower response and more turbo lag. People swear it isn't bad, but it is definitely less responsive, and I will not do anything to this car that makes it less responsive. That is the huge advantage it has over any other turbocharged car I've ever driven.
The hard pipes don't do anything at all. The plastic does not flex enough to make any sort of difference in response, nor would it really help or hurt cooling.
The plastic does tend to crack over time, and the hard pipes have the advantage of being able to customize things.
By going to hard pipes, I could run the boost source to the WGA right off the turbo outlet which is the single best mod I've ever done. They also will let you relocate the MAF which the car will also run much better with. You can then run a VTA BOV instead of the tiny stock bypass. You can still recirculate if you don't want the ricerific psssh. It also allows you to add IATs for monitoring or tuning. All of these are wonderful things, but the pipes themselves don't offer any performance advantage.
I chose not to go to a FMIC for a bunch of reasons. One, it blocks air to the condenser. The Protege A/C is weak and it barely passable on those 115 degree days. Two, it is more volume of air for the turbo to pressurize before the IM sees the boost. This translates to slower response and more turbo lag. People swear it isn't bad, but it is definitely less responsive, and I will not do anything to this car that makes it less responsive. That is the huge advantage it has over any other turbocharged car I've ever driven.
Wow! I really appreciate your descriptive input. Reading this has definitely reinforced my decision to go SMIC with a hard pipe kit. Reason being is I would love to keep the fast turbo spool/throttle response, along with the customization available with the hardpiping. What hardpiping kit do you have installed?
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- 1989 RX-7 GXL Blaze Red
Not if it's mounted under the crash bar.... Your lag time isn't that much worse. I'd rather have the lag than heat soak after half a pull anyways. You can get a full FMIC setup for much less that the price of just the custom SMIC also.
My 2 cents
Wouldn't an upgraded Mishimoto radiator/fans reduce the heatsoak?
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- 1989 RX-7 GXL Blaze Red
If you got a mish rad it'd be a full size or something not specifically for the car. Fans don't change the fact that there is less area to heat up than a FMIC. The smic is considerably smaller than a FMIC (theres your pep vs soak). Your SMIC also does not see nearly the amount of moving air that a FMIC sees. This is your build though, in the end it's your decision.
My 2 cents is now 3 cents
lolIf you got a mish rad it'd be a full size or something not specifically for the car. Fans don't change the fact that there is less area to heat up than a FMIC. The smic is considerably smaller than a FMIC (theres your pep vs soak). Your SMIC also does not see nearly the amount of moving air that a FMIC sees. This is your build though, in the end it's your decision.
My 2 cents is now 3 cents
Well I certainly do appreciate your 3 cents! Lol. The point of this thread is to receive as much input as possible to make my decision. So, thank you sir!
Spiced MSP
Member
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- 2016 Peterbilt 579
you will heatsoak regardless, whether it is the stock SMIC or aftermarket SMIC. It doesn't matter, the SMIC is small and is still in the engine bay surrounded by heat from the engine. Not to mention half or most of the SMIC is blocked by the bumper and anything else in front of the radiator. The car will most likely heatsoak after the first 15-20 minutes worth of driving. Everyone talks about lag this, lag that. We have a freaking GT2554 stock. Where is the lag at? I can see if we were talking about a bigger turbo. But if there is any lag, it is minimal to none, regardless of the IC core size. Hell, a friend of mine has a boosted p5 with the MSP turbo setup and his boost response is the same as my MSP and he is using a big ass godspeed IC core. Everyone knows how the 240sx guys drive around with their bumpers off showing that huge core. Yeah, one of those core sizes.
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- 1989 RX-7 GXL Blaze Red
^^^^^ exactly.
Perro del Sol
Member
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- 2003 MSP, Spicy Orange, 2004 Mazda 6 Hatch, 2004 Mazda 6 Wagon
^^^^^^^
What they said........
What they said........
Lol I see how strongly you feel about FMIC over SMIC's. Is there really even that much difference in performance anyways? Only reason I would do FMIC over SMIC is because for one, the look sick, and two if they really do give way for more power. Either way, I really need to get hardpiping to relocate my MAF and possibly convert to a BOV/BPV set-up.
tweety2300
Member
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- 2001 mazda protege mp3
Get an fmic I plan on doing it and I have to cut a hole in my bumper for it. I have a larger smic than you do and My heatsoak is horrible. I'll give you an example, when first driving it of Im easy through 1st and get on it in 2nd after 8 psi it breaks traction. This is only the first boost pull after that it hear soaks there is a huge power loss. There is no cons to getting an fmic. If you want to talk about lag you might start spooling 250 rpms later if that but the extra power will be much better. The only way you will have noticeable lag is if you use bad couplers or don't tighten them
Spiced MSP
Member
- :
- 2016 Peterbilt 579
tweety pretty much nailed it. By the way, sorry if my previous post came off to strongly..lol. But yeah, the car will pull strong at first with a SMIC, but as everything warms up and heatsoak sets in, you will definitely notice it. The car will not pull as strong as it did before. It is noticeable. A lot of kits you will have to do some cutting, but it isn't a lot at all and won't even be noticeable. Trust what we are saying, you won't regret getting FMIC at all. If you plan to do any mods at all, you will want this.
Thanks man I really appreciate it! I'm really considering getting the Corksport FMIC since I can't really afford the Kinetic version. Lol. Do you have the BOV/BPV set up?
It isn't about spooling, it is simply a matter of repressurizing the intake capacity. More capacity means more time. I estimated it from the piping sizes and turbo flow rates on a 2.0L engine at 2.5rpms to be around half a second. I would think that would be very noticeable.
I currently have an IAT near my throttle body. I've considered getting another welded into my hot pipe to monitor the effectiveness of the IC. It would be very interesting to know. If I ever turn the MSP into a dedicated track car, I'd probably remove the A/C and go to an FMIC, and I could potentially reuse the IATs to remeasure and compare.
If I had to choose over again it would be a tough call, mainly because full size radiators are much cheaper and would be more effective as well. I think the biggest turn off was the fast and furious look of FMICs. Too many crappy ricers running around with them. The MS3 and STi have way more power from the factory than I will ever have and they don't use front mounts.
I currently have an IAT near my throttle body. I've considered getting another welded into my hot pipe to monitor the effectiveness of the IC. It would be very interesting to know. If I ever turn the MSP into a dedicated track car, I'd probably remove the A/C and go to an FMIC, and I could potentially reuse the IATs to remeasure and compare.
If I had to choose over again it would be a tough call, mainly because full size radiators are much cheaper and would be more effective as well. I think the biggest turn off was the fast and furious look of FMICs. Too many crappy ricers running around with them. The MS3 and STi have way more power from the factory than I will ever have and they don't use front mounts.
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- 1989 RX-7 GXL Blaze Red
Seriously? the quicker you can spool the quicker you can "pressurize".
" There is also the general consensus that TMICs are prone to heat soak when used in situations of stop and go traffic. "
