Nitrogen

5280_CX-7 said:
And by the way, has anyone ever had a tire fail due to rubber degradation before the tread wore out?

Short answer: no.

Long answer: the last flat I had was in October 1997. About two weeks after I got my Miata, I ran over a piece of metal on an off-ramp in Phoenix, cutting the sidewall. Since then, it's had five sets of new tires, the latest (Toyo T1-R) in September 2006. None of my other vehicles (1995 Volvo 850, 1999 Dakota, 2004 Santa Fe, 2007 CX-7) have had a flat.

Filling your tires with anything other than free air is a waste of time and money, offers no performance advantage, and only serves to deflate your wallet, in my not-so-humble opinion.
 
Benefits of nitrogen fill:
Safer
Tire failure reduces by 50%
Tread life increases by 25-30%
Fuel economy increases by 5-6%

Better
Improves steering, handling, braking performance
Cheaper
Save over $100 a year in tire and fuel cost

Reduces tire oxidation

Eliminates wheel corrosion

Reduces running temperature

(taken from the email)
 
Does anyone have any hard scientific evidence that nitrogen helps?

Seems like 9hooker is the only one using science here, proving that the benefits are nonexistant....
 
Nitrogen is most helpful to the Dealer's bottom line... all those who believe in the "benefits" of nitrogen please contact me as I will be willing to sell you all the useless junk you can afford:)
 
For what its worth, nitrogen is probably most usefull in cold climates where pressure loss is imminent and preserving your tires for as long as possible is a value to you. Other than that, prob not worth 40 bucks.

The way i read these benefits list is that they are all related to a pressure loss situations and what happens - not so much as what Nitrogen does better than a normal air fill in a non-pressure loss situation

From Popular Mechanics:
I used to use nitrogen to fill my race car tires because it was the cheapest bottled gas I could buy in big cylinders at the welding shop. Twenty bucks' worth of nitrogen would fill enough tires for a whole weekend of endurance racing, and also would run the air wrenches that I used to change the tires.

Remember, air is about 80 percent nitrogen to start with--so the difference is not profound. The balance of the volume of air is mostly oxygen, which is bad for your tires. Oxygen promotes breakdown of the rubber, so your tires should last longer with pure nitrogen. Furthermore, nitrogen molecules migrate through rubber more slowly than oxygen, so your tires should lose pressure more slowly. (I'm assuming you check your tire pressures on a regular schedule.)

Another, perhaps more important, advantage to nitrogen is that the nitrogen delivered from a welding cylinder or nitrogen generator is desiccated and clean. Moisture inside a tire is bad because it causes pressure fluctuations and corrodes rims. And, I've seen lots of water come out of service-station air pumps. I generally will check the line for moisture before I use it by depressing the inflater pin with my thumbnail. If my thumb gets wet, I try to purge the line for a few seconds. There's also the potential for the compressor to force lubricating oil and garbage from the inside of the tank into the tire. Oil will further accelerate breakdown of the rubber, and dirt can be trapped in the valve core, starting a leak. Worse, some shops use automatic oilers to lubricate their air tools, adding even more oily mist to the mix.

To properly use nitrogen in your tires, all of the air has to be purged, generally by the time-honored tradition of alternately filling and venting the tire. Unless the tire is broken off the rim, cleaned of moisture and debris, and remounted with a waterfree rim lubricant before purging with nitrogen, you'll miss most of the benefits.

Bottom line: I'd fill new tires with nitrogen if the tire shop will do it for free or at least at a discount. Most will. But just cruising in and topping off from a nitrogen hose for 20 bucks? Save your money.
 
mikey1981 said:
Remember, air is about 80 percent nitrogen to start with--so the difference is not profound. The balance of the volume of air is mostly oxygen, which is bad for your tires. Oxygen promotes breakdown of the rubber, so your tires should last longer with pure nitrogen. Furthermore, nitrogen molecules migrate through rubber more slowly than oxygen, so your tires should lose pressure more slowly. (I'm assuming you check your tire pressures on a regular schedule.)


I see the point of the article. But I believe the author may be wrong in two respects.

1)Oxygen promotes breakdown of the tire. How many of us have tires that have given out due to rot and not punctures/tread wear/etc? I am willing to bet a large sum that the number is few, and happens rarely on today's tires.

2)Nitrogen molecules migrate through rubber more slowly. The size difference of the molecules is not that much at all. The amount increase of dissipation over regular air is going to be negligible. And if you think about it, only ~20% of the air is O2. So if it gets diffused, you in essence have nitrogen filled tires anyway. Also, who lets their tires get into a state of mal-repair and not around the normal tire pressures? Hell, temperature makes a bigger difference in air pressures than losses through the rubber.

$0.02
 
9Hooker said:
I see the point of the article. But I believe the author may be wrong in two respects.

1)Oxygen promotes breakdown of the tire. How many of us have tires that have given out due to rot and not punctures/tread wear/etc? I am willing to bet a large sum that the number is few, and happens rarely on today's tires.

2)Nitrogen molecules migrate through rubber more slowly. The size difference of the molecules is not that much at all. The amount increase of dissipation over regular air is going to be negligible. And if you think about it, only ~20% of the air is O2. So if it gets diffused, you in essence have nitrogen filled tires anyway. Also, who lets their tires get into a state of mal-repair and not around the normal tire pressures? Hell, temperature makes a bigger difference in air pressures than losses through the rubber.

$0.02

Yeah, I tend to focus on the science behind it all and say all this advertisement crap is just that, crap. The ONLY benefit I can see of nitrogen over normal air is that oyxgen is a better oxidant and will oxidize the tire, but will you ever notice it? I seriously doubt that oxidation plays a large role in tire failure.

As for people saying that nitrogen is larger than oxygen and won't exit the tire as quickly, that's true. But we're talking about such a small difference in radius. Covalent oxygen is 73 pico meters while covalent nitrogen is 75. We're talking a difference of less than 3% difference in radius.
 
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Right, point is - nitro is prob adventagous to a handfull of people. If regular air was so bad for a tire, wed have been pumpin them full of nitro a while ago
 
for what I'm sure is another reason completely, can someone smarter than me tell me why my hydraulic accumulators are filled with nitrogen instead of some other gas???
 
mixmasterlove said:
Just read article today and it recommended NITROGEN, especially in the winter...found a place by me $25.00 ($5.00 a tire). www.getnitrogen.org
Ive got nitrogen in mine. Keeps much better pressure and seems better for my low profile tires too!
 
Who are you guys going to believe-- someone who has absolutely nothing to gain by telling you how it really is, or someone who has everything to gain by telling you what they want you to believe?

A lot of these pro-nitrogen 'statistics' are commming from the same individuals that charge $45 for an oil change :rolleyes:
 
gone_fishin said:
Who are you guys going to believe-- someone who has absolutely nothing to gain by telling you how it really is, or someone who has everything to gain by telling you what they want you to believe?

A lot of these pro-nitrogen 'statistics' are commming from the same individuals that charge $45 for an oil change :rolleyes:
I read mine in a article today, and I have been thinking about it for a while ( I started this thread ), it is HIGHLY recommended for those who live in cold climates.
 
Nitrogen has been used to fill race tires for years. It reacts to temperature change much less than normal air. Most racing rims that are used with nitrogen have two valve stems to make sure the tire is filled with 100% nitrogen. In a daily commuter car I don't see much need for it, but the colder climate thing might be an exception.
 
mixmasterlove said:
it is HIGHLY recommended for those who live in cold climates.


why. what makes it so special that science hasn't debunked (in this thread no less) yet?
 
Put the NITROGEN in today, it cost $25.00 for all 4 tires and the spare AND I got a lifetime refill on them. You actually feel a lil' difference for the BETTER with the NITROGEN. So I give it a A +
 
Next thing you know, someone is going to offer helium fill for tires, because it is lighter than nitrogen and oxygen and will reduce unsprung weight, thus help with handling of your SUV. (bike)

If someone was offering the nitrogen for free, like costco, I'll accept it, but to spend more money on it because it is marginally better, is probably money better spent on a reliable air gauge, re-balancing your wheels, alignment, or dinner. (drive)
 
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