Mazda3 reliability - let's get better info

[P5w3kids]

I wanted more up-to-date car reliability information that made the differences between cars clearer. So a few years ago I started getting people together to make this possible. TrueDelta now updates actual repair frequencies, not just dots, four times a year, to track cars closely as they age.

Thanks to this forum, we've had excellent participation by Mazda owners, and I'd similarly like to provide solid stats for the third-gen Mazda3. Just a matter of getting enough owners involved.

Participants simply report repairs the month after they occur on a one-page survey. When there are no repairs, they simply report an approximate odometer reading four times a year, following the end of each quarter.

To encourage participation, participants receive full access to all results, not just those for the Mazda3, for free. I'll share results for the third-gen Mazda3 in this thread after each update.

http://www.truedelta.com/join

 

[P5w3kids]

18 cars so far, a great start. Thanks, guys!

Looks like we'll have some initial stats in May. The more owners participate, the more precise these will be.

 

[Debbadoo12]

I will certainly participate if/when I purchase this car. I currently have my 2012 Subaru Outback registered.

 

[Debbadoo12]

I just saw kind of a disturbing fact on Yahoo News today. The top ten worst cars that dealers don't want and typically end up in the junk yard at trade in included 3 Mazda models. The 626 was #10 on the list, the Millenia was #5 on the list and the CX-7 was the #1 least desired cars by dealers because of wide-spread engine problems. For all you past Mazda owners, have you had good reliability out of your cars? This is a very important factor for me, as I do not like to spend any time at the dealerships, whether under warranty or not. I owned a 2007 Honda Element for 5 1/2 years and never had it in the shop for anything. Oh, and FYI, there were no Hondas, Toyotas, or Nissans on the list.

 

[SayNoToPistons]

The early CX-7 (and later top trimmed) had the DI turbo'd MZR which would blow turbo seals and conrods all day. The 626 was codeveloped with FoMoCo using a turd 4 speed transmission, and the Millenia S had a Miller Cycle Supercharged engine. Completely different from the SkyA platform we have now. Given the reliability ratings of Mazda's as of late being in the top 5 consecutively, especially with their NA engines.

 

[borjeboy]

According to dekra and Tuv (german reliability information) mazda 3 and 2 are great cars. And according to Tuv mazda is more relieble then Toyota.

And JDpower gives mazda around 4 out of 5 stars. For example VW has only 2 stars at jdpowers

 

[WildMidwest]

Engine and transmission reliability is one thing. Rust and electronic failures is another. My wife's 2003 Mazda MPV is a rust-bucket compared to my 2000 Corolla. The Corolla doesn't have a spot of body rust despite thirteen salty-slushy Wisconsin winters. I seldom wash my Corolla so that's not the explanation. I believe Toyota puts a better paint job on their cars than Mazda. Other factors may certainly be involved. Oxidation-reduction car chemistry is quite a complex subject involving internal microelectrical currents, paint chemistry, paint thickness, welds, steel bends, water collection pockets (doors and wheel wells that pack salty ice against metal until it eventually rusts through), and other physico-electrochemical factors.

I thought about bolting a couple sacrifice anodes onto my new car when I get it, but I am not sure that will help and it might yield unintended consequences such as compromising sensitive electronic equipment.

My sense is that Volkswagon and other companies do a better job at rust prevention in recent decades than Mazda, but it's not enough to make me want to buy another VW. My local Mazda salesman says they've got the rust problem solved, but the dealer was saying that back in 2003 when we bought my wife's MPV. Mazda owners from 2006-09 continue to report premature rust on their vehicles, so I doubt Mada's rust issue is truly solved... or at least it's too early to say. Better plan on early rusting if prior experience is any guide.

Does rust make a car unreliable? It depends how much rust, where it's located, and how prematurely it develops. Door and fender rust is ugly but it's not usually hazardous. Floor rust can be a safety issue if exhaust gasses enter the cabin. Floor rust can also be uncomfortable when cold wind penetrates the cabin via large holes. I experienced this in multiple older vehicles but not in any car built after about 1986.

 

[borjeboy]

Engine and transmission reliability is one thing. Rust and electronic failures is another. My wife's 2003 Mazda MPV is a rust-bucket compared to my 2000 Corolla. The Corolla doesn't have a spot of body rust despite thirteen salty-slushy Wisconsin winters. I seldom wash my Corolla so that's not the explanation. I believe Toyota puts a better paint job on their cars than Mazda. Other factors may certainly be involved. Oxidation-reduction car chemistry is quite a complex subject involving internal microelectrical currents, paint chemistry, paint thickness, welds, steel bends, water collection pockets (doors and wheel wells that pack salty ice against metal until it eventually rusts through), and other physico-electrochemical factors.

I thought about bolting a couple sacrifice anodes onto my new car when I get it, but I am not sure that will help and it might yield unintended consequences such as compromising sensitive electronic equipment.

My sense is that Volkswagon and other companies do a better job at rust prevention in recent decades than Mazda, but it's not enough to make me want to buy another VW. My local Mazda salesman says they've got the rust problem solved, but the dealer was saying that back in 2003 when we bought my wife's MPV. Mazda owners from 2006-09 continue to report premature rust on their vehicles, so I doubt Mada's rust issue is truly solved... or at least it's too early to say. Better plan on early rusting if prior experience is any guide.

Does rust make a car unreliable? It depends how much rust, where it's located, and how prematurely it develops. Door and fender rust is ugly but it's not usually hazardous. Floor rust can be a safety issue if exhaust gasses enter the cabin. Floor rust can also be uncomfortable when cold wind penetrates the cabin via large holes. I experienced this in multiple older vehicles but not in any car built after about 1986.

it's true about Mazda that they rust if you don't do something about it... But when it comes to these new Mazda 3, when they arrive to schlebrge in europe. They put an extra rust protection on cars for the nordic market, it's Mazdas nordic agent that stand behinds it.
And vibilgare have had it tried out by rust experts in stockholm, and they said that it looked very good and when they had a look under the car and in wheel bases and under joints (is that the english word?) well, they found it to be very well done... And that they are impressed that there finally is an asian car manufacture how takes on responsibility for that in the nordic countries we have special conditions. Infact that was the second best thing on the new Mazda 3 after the driving experience..

Not sure if they do it in other countries to that has similar conditions but atleast they do it here and it sounds very good.. But again it's that agent they have here and ofcourse Mazdas biggest problem in the swedish market is there rust reputation, and they most fix that here

 

[WildMidwest]

I am not sure how Nordic customers are so lucky, but I don't believe the type of protection you describe is generally available in the U.S. Canadians seem to have better aftermarket rust protection options from what I have read, some of which involves drilling into compartments and spraying high corrosion areas. I am not aware of such products or services in my area despite repeated inquiries. I believe most people here are simply resigned to rusty vehicles or trading up. Mazda dealerships will surely oblige the latter.

 

[WildMidwest]

My family used Ziebart undercoating on a couple of our cars in the 1970s, however within 2-4 years the elastomeric layer began pulling away from metal revealing pockets of serious rust. Others we knew had the same experience. I don't know if Ziebart changed their process since then but I learned my lesson about such treatments. Heavy oil undercoating seemed to work better but it had to be repeated every year and it was a drippy mess afterward. I cannot locate any shop willing to do oil undercoating -- not sure if it's legal in the U.S. anymore. I think Canadians can still get oil undercoating done.

I may give Ziebart a call and hear their sales pitch. Perhaps I will learn something useful.

 

[concept]

The early CX-7 (and later top trimmed) had the DI turbo'd MZR which would blow turbo seals and conrods all day. The 626 was codeveloped with FoMoCo using a turd 4 speed transmission, and the Millenia S had a Miller Cycle Supercharged engine. Completely different from the SkyA platform we have now. Given the reliability ratings of Mazda's as of late being in the top 5 consecutively, especially with their NA engines.

My 89 MX6 GT (2-door version of the 626 GT) auto tranny has 165,000 miles on it and still runs strong.

 

[WildMidwest]

Sorry about the thread hijack. I should start a new thread to discuss rust prevention, though we won't know how badly it is needed for another 8-10 years.

 

[P5w3kids]

Did you start a thread on rust prevention? The cars noted on the Yahoo story were special cases, but rust is a much more general concern with Mazdas. I've been fighting rust on my 2003 P5 since it was six months out of the rust warranty.

 

[WildMidwest]

I did not start a new thread. There are plenty of rust threads for 2003-2009 Mazdas. New cars aren't going to have much rust except in extreme sand-salt-slush conditions or damage. I hope there will not be a need for a 2014 MZ3 rust thread for many years to come.

 

[sql-lover]

The early CX-7 (and later top trimmed) had the DI turbo'd MZR which would blow turbo seals and conrods all day. The 626 was codeveloped with FoMoCo using a turd 4 speed transmission, and the Millenia S had a Miller Cycle Supercharged engine. Completely different from the SkyA platform we have now. Given the reliability ratings of Mazda's as of late being in the top 5 consecutively, especially with their NA engines.

Wasn't that the same engine we had on the Speed6? I had that car for 7 years , few recalls but never a problem. It was a great car. I sold it and still was running great.

 

[P5w3kids]

The typical MS6 also had a few issues. It sounds like you got one of the good ones. But the CX-7 does seem to have had far more problems despite having essentially the same engine as the MS3 and MS6.

 

[7Midgets]

Interesting study on Ten worst trade in values in the last 10 years conducted at wholesale auctions.

"Quality is something we all want when it comes to cars, especially older used ones. But how do we get it?

I have been studying this question in one form or another for nearly 14 years now. I began my automotive career as a car dealer, buying and selling hundreds of vehicles a year. As time went on, I became an auto auctioneer, a remarketing manager and a part-owner of a wholesale auto auction.

I saw thousands of cars come and go through the auction block during the course of each year, and as my worked changed, so did my understanding of quality. The overwhelming majority of the time, cars and trucks considered reliable in their early days would draw the strongest bids. But it wasn't always true; I observed some models experience costly transmission failure just as the odometer rolled past the 100,000-mile mark, while others would exhibit everything from blown head gaskets, to chronic rust issues to inoperative battery packs for hybrid vehicles..............read more http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motora...c-guide-10-worst-used-vehicles-222709616.html



Ten worst trades
10. Volkswagen New Beetle (automatic transmission issues and cheap interior components; diesel models with 5-speed manuals are by far the best powertrain option.)

9. Mazda 626 (automatic transmission issues, all models.)

8. Lincoln Aviator (a gussied-up, unpopular Ford Explorer that had unique sensor and software issues which negatively impacted the overall powertrain and electronics.)

7. Jaguar S-Type (Extensive transmission and engine issues on all V-6 and V-8 models. Along with Limited edition models with ungodly replacement costs.)

6. Lincoln LS (Same basic powertrain as the Jaguar S-Type with nearly identical results.)

5. Mazda Millenia (Engine issues, transmission issues and cheap interiors that just don't wear well.)

4. Land Rover Discovery (Expensive parts. Expensive powertrains. Electronics that are apparently the spawn of Beelzebub.)

3. Mini Cooper (Bad transmissions that are unusually expensive to replace. Cheap interior parts. Cheap hydraulics.)

2. Land Rover Freelander (A cost-cutting exercise that went way past the bone.)

And a true shocker, the single worst used vehicle at the wholesale auctions when it comes to overall defect rate at trade-in time is....

1. Mazda CX-7 (Engine issues on these vehicles are legion with nearly a third of these vehicles sold with "Engine needs service" announcements at the auctions.)






http://tradeinqualityindex.com/reports/Mazda.html

 

[WildMidwest]

Please clarify, are you talking about Mazdas from the Ford joint-venture days? If so, it's hard to know what bearing that might have on SkyActiv equipped Mazdas.

 

[7Midgets]

SkyActives have not been out long enough to know what their long term reliability numbers will be. This is a study of 10 year old vehicles. We always get JD Powers initial reliability which means little to those buying used cars. Especially since the last three years reliability numbers have gone down mostly due to tech problems with Ford Sync and general infotainment tech in new cars. No one has done a study like this for long term trade values. This is more designed to let people know what vehicles will retain their value when they are ready to trade them or resell them. 2013 CX-5s are not bringing much because of the 2.0 and tech issues and 2015s are being released early. First model years are always a crap shoot and field beta testing by buyers bring major improvements in subsequent models.

True Delta is a good indicator as well if enough people connect getting a large sample, of new and older vehicles.

 

[gino]

My wife just bought a '14 iTouring hatch. Sold her pristine '03 Protege ES w/90k miles on the clock for $4300. One timing belt, a pair of front rotors and pads. Nothing more in 13 years. My '03 P5 has 189k on it. One wheel bearing, one timing belt, pads. Engine is dead smooth and still quick (few mods, nothing internal). One qt. between 3500m oil changes. No problems of any kind since new.

As for reliability of new Touring, we'll have to wait and see. We've owned Mazdas since late 80s with no reliability problems, but we had MTs, no turbos and no accessory packages. And no rust, but no salt on Colorado roads helps, along with low humidity year 'round.

BTW, if you don't subscribe to TrueDelta, absolutely do it. Very highly recommended. Real owner comments, no BS. Costs nothing and Michael's website is terrific for all kinds of info.