funksilver07
Member
- :
- 2007 Sunlight Silver Mazdaspeed 3 GT
Anyone using the J-Speed short shift plate? Looking for a comparison to the JBarone version. Thanks for any response and feedback.
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JSpeed short shift plate...
- Thread starter funksilver07
- Start date
funksilver07
Member
- :
- 2007 Sunlight Silver Mazdaspeed 3 GT
Well I guess I'll find out for myself soon enough, just ordered the J-Speed version....(2thumbs)
Anyone using the J-Speed short shift plate? Looking for a comparison to the JBarone version. Thanks for any response and feedback.
Here is my biased comparison:
A few observations so potential buyers have the information they need to make an educated choice.
Do you see any other part linkage made of aluminum? There is a reason mine are made of steel. Flex causes stress, stress causes cracks, cracks equal failure. My first shift plate was of aluminum and I was not going to have that on my conscious. With that much material removed I cant see how theres no flex.
Running with the stock weight will damage the syncros and eventually the gears of the transmission. Listen for a load clunk when you slam 2nd, then 3rd and so on. The same condition will result with out the weight. The weight is not just for comfort.
My shift plate is ~40% reduction in throw, so if the boot isnt rubbing I say this one is more like 30%.
And why would anybody want to adjust where neutral is located? So the throw can be short going in to 2nd and long going in to 3rd? I dont get that. Neutral is.Neutral
Thanks,
Jamie
funksilver07
Member
- :
- 2007 Sunlight Silver Mazdaspeed 3 GT
jbarone thanks for the comparison. I figure for $55. I'll try this one out to see if I even will like a shift plate opposed to a real STS. If I feel any weirdness with this piece It will just be a throw away for me. This whole short shift plate thing is a new concept to me and I will make up my own mind when I have the part on the car. My car is my DD and I like the easy shifts just don't like the long throws. I've had several STS's on other cars and as much as I like the short throws in most cases the shifting is a bit harder. Fine for race mode but I'm not in race mode driving to work. I will have to evaluate whether the integrity of this piece will hold up to what ever stress factors may come into play.
J-Speed Inc.
Member
- :
- 2008.5 Mazdaspeed 3
I am not trying to start an online argument, I welcome JBarone's, as well as anyone else's opinion regarding my J-Speed SSP. JBarone's response above can be seen in one of my threads regarding my shift plate to which I had the following response:
"Thank you for your observations, your input is greatly appreciated! You have been in this business much longer than I have and I respect your opinion. However, I have done much research on this part before releasing it to the public."
"When investigating the shifting mechanism on the Mazdaspeed 3, I noticed that it was possible to shift gears with just one finger. This tells me that there is a small amount of effort required to move the shift linkage on the transmission, certainly machined aluminum can handle this stress. The J-Speed SSP is made from a solid billet of aluminum then machined to its final form; this allows the strength of the aluminum to stay intact. The material removed from the center of the plate contains rounded edges which eliminate the possibility of stress fractures in those areas."
"In regards to using the stock counterweight with my SSP, I fail to understand how this would damage the synchros and gears of the transmission. If the stock counterweight is of the wrong mass, why would Mazda install at the factory?"
"Regarding the adjustability of my SSP, when prototyping this product, I found that having adjustability in the static position of the shifter, or neutral point, was very beneficial. It allowed drivers to have more control of shift throws and have the shifter be exactly where they’d like it to be. For example, I have the SSP on my car adjusted as far forward as possible because I have long arms and was tired of “elbowing” the arm-rest when shifting. A customer informed me that he likes the plate adjusted in the center because it allows even shift throws for the odd and even gears; it all comes down to personal preference. We spend so much money and time personalizing our cars; why not make the shifting the same way?"
Regards,
Josh
J-Speed Inc.
“Shift All Possibilities”
"Thank you for your observations, your input is greatly appreciated! You have been in this business much longer than I have and I respect your opinion. However, I have done much research on this part before releasing it to the public."
"When investigating the shifting mechanism on the Mazdaspeed 3, I noticed that it was possible to shift gears with just one finger. This tells me that there is a small amount of effort required to move the shift linkage on the transmission, certainly machined aluminum can handle this stress. The J-Speed SSP is made from a solid billet of aluminum then machined to its final form; this allows the strength of the aluminum to stay intact. The material removed from the center of the plate contains rounded edges which eliminate the possibility of stress fractures in those areas."
"In regards to using the stock counterweight with my SSP, I fail to understand how this would damage the synchros and gears of the transmission. If the stock counterweight is of the wrong mass, why would Mazda install at the factory?"
"Regarding the adjustability of my SSP, when prototyping this product, I found that having adjustability in the static position of the shifter, or neutral point, was very beneficial. It allowed drivers to have more control of shift throws and have the shifter be exactly where they’d like it to be. For example, I have the SSP on my car adjusted as far forward as possible because I have long arms and was tired of “elbowing” the arm-rest when shifting. A customer informed me that he likes the plate adjusted in the center because it allows even shift throws for the odd and even gears; it all comes down to personal preference. We spend so much money and time personalizing our cars; why not make the shifting the same way?"
Regards,
Josh
J-Speed Inc.
“Shift All Possibilities”
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Read the following 2x. It's that important.
I have no interest in arguing with you either.
You've only owned your MS3 for a little over 2 months and you indicated you only had a thousand miles on your shift plate. You only installed it on the MS6 last night when yesterday morning you said you had it installed on a friends car. Why would you have PM'd me asking what kind of issues I've run in to developing the plate for the 6 if you've done your research? You'd think that with is much research you put in to your piece you know the exact reduction in throw. I don't need the piece in hand to know it's not 40%. As I mentioned before if the boot's not rubbing it's not 40%. With the Short Shift Plate being a pretty new modification for the MS3, I’ve had to work very hard to gain the trust, respect and confidence of the Mazda community. I don’t appreciate you clearly lying about the capabilities of your product. This will hurt us both in the end.
You can't see the effects of stress with the naked eye until it's too late nor can you after only a thousand miles. You don't see TWM, COBB or E4 making shifters out of aluminum. But then again what do they know.
When you decrease the radius, and the force applied is increased, the speed is increased too. When you have too much mass moving at high speed what happens when it comes to an abrupt halt? The Mazda weight was designed for the factory configuration, not for this configuration. Why do you think it's recommended to change the weight after installing a short throw shifter?
May I add that adding a ” of material, not providing longer bolts and not providing a method of locking the shorter bolts is a liability that I hope for your sake doesn’t get someone killed. With the amount of vibration our cars create and bolts seated on soft material this is a recipe for disaster.
I am not trying to start an online argument, I welcome JBarone's, as well as anyone else's opinion regarding my J-Speed SSP.
I have no interest in arguing with you either.
I have done much research on this part before releasing it to the public.
You've only owned your MS3 for a little over 2 months and you indicated you only had a thousand miles on your shift plate. You only installed it on the MS6 last night when yesterday morning you said you had it installed on a friends car. Why would you have PM'd me asking what kind of issues I've run in to developing the plate for the 6 if you've done your research? You'd think that with is much research you put in to your piece you know the exact reduction in throw. I don't need the piece in hand to know it's not 40%. As I mentioned before if the boot's not rubbing it's not 40%. With the Short Shift Plate being a pretty new modification for the MS3, I’ve had to work very hard to gain the trust, respect and confidence of the Mazda community. I don’t appreciate you clearly lying about the capabilities of your product. This will hurt us both in the end.
"When investigating the shifting mechanism on the Mazdaspeed 3, I noticed that it was possible to shift gears with just one finger. This tells me that there is a small amount of effort required to move the shift linkage on the transmission, certainly machined aluminum can handle this stress. The J-Speed SSP is made from a solid billet of aluminum then machined to its final form; this allows the strength of the aluminum to stay intact. The material removed from the center of the plate contains rounded edges which eliminate the possibility of stress fractures in those areas."
You can't see the effects of stress with the naked eye until it's too late nor can you after only a thousand miles. You don't see TWM, COBB or E4 making shifters out of aluminum. But then again what do they know.
"In regards to using the stock counterweight with my SSP, I fail to understand how this would damage the synchros and gears of the transmission. If the stock counterweight is of the wrong mass, why would Mazda install at the factory?"
When you decrease the radius, and the force applied is increased, the speed is increased too. When you have too much mass moving at high speed what happens when it comes to an abrupt halt? The Mazda weight was designed for the factory configuration, not for this configuration. Why do you think it's recommended to change the weight after installing a short throw shifter?
May I add that adding a ” of material, not providing longer bolts and not providing a method of locking the shorter bolts is a liability that I hope for your sake doesn’t get someone killed. With the amount of vibration our cars create and bolts seated on soft material this is a recipe for disaster.
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funksilver07
Member
- :
- 2007 Sunlight Silver Mazdaspeed 3 GT
I think the question we should be asking here is what type of billet aluminum is being used. T6 temper 6061 has an ultimate tensile strength of at least 42,000 psi (290 MPa) and yield strength of at least 35,000 psi (241 MPa). In thicknesses of 0.250 inch (6.35 mm) or less, it has elongation of 8% or more; in thicker sections, it has elongation of 10%. This is a true billet aluminum which means it comes in extruded bars instead of poured into a casting. T4 temper 6061 has an ultimate tensile strength of at least 30,000 psi (207 MPa) and yield strength of at least 16,000 psi (110 MPa). It has elongation of 16%. This can technically be called billet aluminum, but it's not nearly as strong as 6061-T6. My point is aluminum can be very strong if you are using the right billet and the manufacturing process is done correctly. How much stress does this part sustain? Aluminum can be very strong and durable if manufactured correctly. So to J-Speed what type of billet aluminum did you use in the making of your product and who/how was it manufactured? As a member of the Mazda community I would like to see a sharing of info so we can all benefit from a potentially quality piece like this. Obviously you guy's (JBarone, Jazzy, J-Speed) spent some time researching this so let's just get it right so we can have some options for us who are interested in a relatively new idea, at least for me. I've always just gone with a real STS in the past so I am trying to catch up with the learning curve of this piece and how it relates to the physics of its operation.
- :
- 2007 MS3
...the plate adjusted in the center because it allows even shift throws for the odd and even gears...
When I read statements like this, I have to question how much the writer actually understands the mechanism involved.
Changing the effective location of neutral is not going to change the length of even and odd throws.
- :
- 2007 MS3
When you decrease the radius, and the force applied is increased, the speed is increased too. When you have too much mass moving at high speed what happens when it comes to an abrupt halt? The Mazda weight was designed for the factory configuration, not for this configuration. Why do you think it's recommended to change the weight after installing a short throw shifter?
I hadn`t considered that changing the leverage would result in effectively slamming into gear every time the shifting gets a little "spirited".
Does anybody sell just the lighter weights? I really don`t want to hack up my stocker.
I hadn`t considered that changing the leverage would result in effectively slamming into gear every time the shifting gets a little "spirited".
Does anybody sell just the lighter weights? I really don`t want to hack up my stocker.
You can contact COBB Plano or Cobb Surgline. One of the two still has them.
I have them, and there is one other guy, an old employee of COBB who is manufacturing them too, but I don't have the link handy.
FYI
COBB weight 7-8oz
Mine 12.5oz
Let's see if MS3BoostGT knows the the stock shift weight.
Thanks.
Jamie
J-Speed Inc.
Member
- :
- 2008.5 Mazdaspeed 3
funksilver07,
In regards to your question about the J-Speed SSP material, it is made of T6 6061 aluminum which is machined lengthwise along the grain on a 3-axis vertical mill.
jbarone, the stock counterweight weighs 16.3 oz.
Regards,
Josh
J-Speed Inc.
"Shift All Possibilities"
In regards to your question about the J-Speed SSP material, it is made of T6 6061 aluminum which is machined lengthwise along the grain on a 3-axis vertical mill.
jbarone, the stock counterweight weighs 16.3 oz.
Regards,
Josh
J-Speed Inc.
"Shift All Possibilities"
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jbarone, the stock counterweight weighs 16.3 oz.
Stock Shifter Weight = 1lb 3.5oz or 19.5oz
Typical optical micro graphs depicting the bulk microstructure of the aluminum alloy T6 6061 at a x1000 magnification show NO linear grain structure.
Jamie
J-Speed Inc.
Member
- :
- 2008.5 Mazdaspeed 3
Jamie, you are correct in the weight of the stock counterweight, please excuse my typo. When I weighed it on a postal scale with no bolts inserted into the threaded holes, I got a weight of 1 lb 3 oz or 19 oz.
funksilver07
Member
- :
- 2007 Sunlight Silver Mazdaspeed 3 GT
OK I installed the J-speed SSP today. I will hold off on a detailed review until I have a day or two to get up to speed on shifting with the new part. I did take it for a short drive after installing and it felt pretty good. All the gear shifts were solid and definitely shorter. Install was a breeze, especially since I don't have the stock air box. I did order a lighter shifter weight so I will be swapping out the stock one to see the difference in dynamics of shifting with the stock weight compared to a lighter version.
UPDATE: My only concern at this point is the integrity (strength) of this piece. I saw a pic from another member that was flawed. I'm not going to go any further with any other statements at this point. Time will tell if this part will hold up or not. I will give J-Speed the benefit of the doubt, at least for now. I for one would like to know if there was any real testing on the tensile strength and actual stress-strain curve of the applied load and at what point deformation would occur from stress...
UPDATE: My only concern at this point is the integrity (strength) of this piece. I saw a pic from another member that was flawed. I'm not going to go any further with any other statements at this point. Time will tell if this part will hold up or not. I will give J-Speed the benefit of the doubt, at least for now. I for one would like to know if there was any real testing on the tensile strength and actual stress-strain curve of the applied load and at what point deformation would occur from stress...
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- :
- 2007 MS3
at what point deformation would occur from stress...
My experience over the years with aluminum is that it doesn`t deform much. It gives just a little then snaps. Either it does the job or it doesn`t. There isn`t much halfway about it.
Hello gentleman. I hope it stays this way too! I will be purchasing one of the two products discussed here. I think the customer reviews and pricing both will play a role in my decision. I would order one today as i think both these mechanically engineered designs deserve respect but it seems you fellows are going to continue this dialogue abit longer and my car is up for the winter. So i can be patient. May i say that i appreciate, along with others i think, that this product has been brought to market by each of you. it is always good to have choices, that's for sure and the pricing seems more than fair. But the customer will tell which products please them the most. I wish you both a goodly market share. Feel free to sway me with a pm! best of luck to you both
J-Speed Inc.
Member
- :
- 2008.5 Mazdaspeed 3
I have SSP's ready to go, all plates ship from J-Speed inc. in (1) business day!
funksilver07
Member
- :
- 2007 Sunlight Silver Mazdaspeed 3 GT
For anyone watching this thread, I replaced my stock shift weight for a lighter version. I drove with the stock weight for about 4 days. The new weight is 10.56 oz.(0.66 lbs) compared to the stock which is I think 19.6 oz.(1lb & 3.60 oz.) I liked the feel with the stock weight in place. Shifts were solid, a bit heavier than stock but not too bad at all. Now with the new lighter weight in place it feels even better (at least IMO), nice light shifts and no problems getting into all gears easily. So, as far as the performance of this SSP, it does what it was advertised to do. Love the shorter throws, solid feel, and ease of installation. Time will tell if the argument/discussion over the strength/integrity of this part holds up. For the price and what it does I'll give a thumbs up to JSpeed. (thumb) I check in regularly with all my parts that are on my car, so I will be watching this SSP to see how it holds up for the long run...
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