How long should the stock clutch last?

[Wurf]

I'm starting to wonder how long the clutch in this car is going to hold. It's getting softer and sloppier every month. I guess my post should have been, "how long did the stock clutch last for you?". I would suspect on a stock car, it technically should last 50K.

I'm starting to think 35K if you drive it with any measure of aggressiveness and even less if you track it or drive it harder.

Looking for numbers from those that have replaced theirs already. How many miles did you get? How do you drive for the most part?

Thanks

 

[MSMS3]

53,000 miles. LOTS of drop clutch launches, track trips and flat shifting. Still performs like new.

 

[Wurf]

Looks like maybe I need to try a RMM. It's not slipping but it doesn't feel "new" anymore and the whole drive train feels a bit sloppy.

 

[oaklandopen]

I would say the clutch lasts for a long time seeing how difficult it is to really slip it

The more on/off a clutch is, the longer the friction surface lasts. Slipping equals more heat, which equals less life.

In an auto trans, if you are driving in such a manner that the gears are changing smoothly that actually has a more detrimental effect than hard shifts. In a nutshell, its a combination of engine load and vehicle speed that determines how much the clutched in an auto trans slip. And belive it or not, hard shifts (that come from driving moderately aggressive) are better for the clutches than driving slowly and smoothly

I can only imagine its the same way in a manual. And seeing how the only gear you should only slip in is first from a stop, there shouldn't be any reason why the clutch wouldn't last the life of the vehicle

I don't slip to higher gears (ie slipping to help brake), I start in 1st everytime from a dead stop, and if I do have to upshift whilst driving I blip the throttle and matchh rpms so as to prevent too much slippage

 

[WillD]

I'm closing in on 75k on mine and it is still as good as new. The clutch in my Miata also has 75k including several thousand track miles and autocross and it is not close to needing to be changed either.

If you wore a clutch out in 35k I would consider taking a look at my driving style and/or looking into it being a faulty unit to begin with.

 

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

32k, still catches like an on/off switch like the day I bought it.

I learned manual on this thing too.

 

[Domino81]

40k or so... I can chirp 3rd and 4th.

 

[Wurf]

Thanks Guys.
Starting to feel like it's highly unlikely I'll need a clutch anytime soon based on feedback here.
I always blip the throttle to try to RPM match on downshifts and I heel and toe. This is what makes stick shift driving fun in the first place.
I learned to drive a stick on a 280z back in the 80's and my first, personal stick shift car was a 91 Ford Probe V6. That was followed by a 88 Mustang GT with the venerable T5. I've had a couple other manual trans cars too - a Celica and a Cobra replica I built with a Tremec T3550. The T3550 was the best manual transmission of any car I've driven.

Anyway, I've never burned or worn the clutch out in a car, but honestly this car has me wondering sometimes. It's just really weird and nothing like it was when it was new, that's for sure.

Ordered a SURE RMM today and looking forward to any improvements it makes.

 

[meicalnissyen]

65K

baby the car at all times, and never launch at lights,....... ever

I did have that odd slip some peeps have reported shifting 4-5 on the freeway happened 2 or 3 times but it hasn't done that in a couple years

a clutch should go well past 100K

 

[Wurf]

I don't get any of that. No slip during driving - ever when the clutch is out.

It's just not as grabby as it was when new and it almost feels like the PP springs are getting slightly weaker.
Then there's that odd, chirpy, squeaking, metallic sound off the line in first gear that many report being the TO bearing - bugs me.

I drive the car normal most of the time and never drop-clutch launch it. I'll slip first a bit to be smooth off the line sometimes, but normally I try to avoid slipping it and just let it out. Car bogs quite often because of it but that's OK. It's just part of the character of this thing IMO.

The hardest I'll drive it occasionally is aggressively take off in first, then speed shift second, then deliberately and firmly shift 2-3 making sure the clutch is fully depressed so I don't grind the s*** out of third. I let off after that because I'm probably violating the speed limit.

Mostly I'll go easy in first and short shift into second, wait for 3k on the tach, then WOT for some fun, let off, and shift right into fourth.

 

[MSMS3]

I think you hit the nail on the head, Wurf, with the RMM. I'm running the SURE. Put it in only a couple months ago. It does have some vibration and the engine has some harshness now in certain rpm's at lighter throttle, but it SURE (pardon the pun) tightened up the drive train and greatly reduces the chance of missing that 2-3 shift. You should be able to flatshift it now without fear. The clutch on this car is stout. There are guys on another board running 400 whp on the stock clutch/pressure plate combo with no problem.

But, as you know, you can destroy a new low mileage clutch at even low hp if you glaze it and overheat/burn the disc, warp the plate etc. by slipping it too much, especially trying to hold the car on a steep hill with just the clutch, or other stupid stuff like that.

 

[DarkAngel]

Wife and I are at 55K on our 07 Speed 3 and the clutch feels like when we got her at 19k, like new. We dont drop clutch, race it or anything like that though but we do speed up in and out of traffic. That 5 gear torque is very nice when one needs it on the Highway and we dont have to drop a gear.

 

[kpuser1]

Yeah it's probably the rmm...
I've been hammering the clutch for 53k with no problems(corksport inserts for about 40k)

(drive2)

 

[Wurf]

Got the SURE RMM on Friday. Very impressive piece of precision made hardware that looks like it's worth every penny. It's even packaged in a professional cut foam box.
Too bad you can't see it and show it to people. I'm very impressed.

I think you hit the nail on the head, Wurf, with the RMM. I'm running the SURE. Put it in only a couple months ago. It does have some vibration and the engine has some harshness now in certain rpm's at lighter throttle, but it SURE (pardon the pun) tightened up the drive train and greatly reduces the chance of missing that 2-3 shift. You should be able to flatshift it now without fear. The clutch on this car is stout. There are guys on another board running 400 whp on the stock clutch/pressure plate combo with no problem.

But, as you know, you can destroy a new low mileage clutch at even low hp if you glaze it and overheat/burn the disc, warp the plate etc. by slipping it too much, especially trying to hold the car on a steep hill with just the clutch, or other stupid stuff like that.

 

[spdjnke]

let us know how it feels once you install it....my CPE with 65 duro is still not fully broken in, even after almost 7K miles....damn thing still vibes with A/C on....piss me off enough to wanna put the stock rmm with CS MMI back in....never had an issue with that setup that's for sure.

 

[Wurf]

Well surprise surprise!
Upon removal and inspection, the OEM mount was cracked in a couple places on top.
Installed the SURE mount but I may have accidentally over-torqued the bolt and crushed the mounting arms against the motor bracket a bit.
Didn't grease any of this either but I think it will break-in as others have noted.

Couple things to report:
1. A lot more vibes at idle even thought it's the street bushing. A bit disturbing frankly but probably just takes getting used to. I've had a car with solid motor mounts and a stroker V8 and this is different, but not as bad as that. You get the in-cabin resonating the vibes a bit.
2. Car feels much more solid when taking off and the vibes go away anywhere above idle.
3. NO MORE SQUEAK / chirping sound from the front end when I take off in 1st which is nice.
4. Now that I've been under the car to checkout how all this works, I think the cracked OEM mount was allowing the exhaust to contact the chassis.

I've only driven around the block but I'm happy thus far.

I think I recall when the OEM mount originally cracked. I remember shortly after I got the car, I took off in first - not a drop clutch start either - and l got into it. Heard some loud "pop" sounds from the front that freaked me out a bit. I think this was the rubber in the mount breaking. Almost seemed like a splined shaft shearing a few splines but I now think it was the mount failing.

 

[Wurf]

Follow-up:

It's a toss-up between which bothers you more.
Eliminating much of the elasticity in the drive train VS dealing with some dashboard rattling vibes and resonance.

These are especially present at slow speeds in higher gears.
You won't want to slow down and leave it in second very long before stopping very often.
You know when you're lugging the motor even the least bit.

On the plus side, you can leave it in first and cruise slowly without that jerking, lurching business where the mounts flex, load the motor, then unload, mounts flex, load the motor over and over. I hated that about the stock mount.

The SURE RMM and others like it tame the clutch and make the car easier to drive at the expense of increased NVH, plain and simple.

 

[oaklandopen]

Eliminate your balance shaft and see how bad it gets

 

[Wurf]

Eliminate your balance shaft and see how bad it gets

I can only imagine. I'll take the minor HP hit thanks.

Same could be said for upgrading the other mounts and putting a louder exhaust on the car. Not the direction I personally want to go, but I understand for some.

 

[08cosmic3]

I'm at 58,000 and I have an issue with my clutch. I'm not one that babies this car and those that do I feel sorry for your little car, it was meant to be driven hard. My clutch grabs but after running up through a few gears at a brisk pace, the very next time I use the clutch it will grab almost on the floor and the pedal feels dead. After that one time it is fine. It will never do this during routine driving, only after I dig in the spurs. I have taken my car to the drag strip many times and flat footing down the strip has lead to many stinky trips home afterward. I go to Deals Gap (Tail of the Dragon) twice a year and beat on her some more.