HELP...Experiences/thoughts on using copper antisieze on caliper pins?

[Weborific]

Hi again!
I've had my calipers replaced last December (all 4) with rebuilt calipers. After about a month, my mechanic told me the front calipers were seized and changed them again (free, of course, he's my brother-in-law). I began to question these damn rebuilts, especially since having had SEVERAL rebuilt alternators that kept failing. Today, having my car on a lift, I spun my wheels. One rear wheel spun twice before stopping, the other rear spun HALF a revolution. This isn't normal. I had them replace the wheel bearing hub and they also replaced the caliper with yet ANOTHER rebuilt since I was still under warranty. So they install the hub and caliper and the wheel spins perfectly! Only that there was some defect in the new caliper and the brake didn't work. So they removed it and installed my old caliper. The wheel still spins beautifully (better than the other side) but they tell me they're going to replace BOTH calipers on Saturday because the other caliper seems to not be releasing properly when disengaging the hand brake. AAARRRGGHHH! I just wanna throw all this rebuilt crap in the garbage!! Is anybody else having sooo much trouble with rebuilt calipers or is my brother-in-law doing something wrong?? One thing I just thought of is that I never saw him using grease on the pins, but thought I saw him using copper anti-seize paste. So I called to confirm. He says that's what he always uses but I can't see it being better in this case. Can this paste handle this high-heat? Would the copper fuse and become solid? Wouldn't the copper be like an abrasive?? Anybody have any insight?? PLEASE! THANKS!!

 

[MaxPower]

Every shop manual I've ever read calls for using high-temp brake grease on the caliper slide pins.

What is he using the copper anti-seize on? And why is he putting anything on an already- rebuilt caliper?

 

[sethro_GT]

Rear calipers are complex and I bet the $1 per hour employee's in mexico doing the rebuilds aren't quite up to the task. Don't know what to tell you other than good luck and try a different brand.

 

[Wagonbacker9]

its a pretty common, though dated, practice..

 

[Weborific]

I thank you all for taking the time to reply! I guess I was hoping for a more definitive answer to put my mind at ease... Like, "NO!! NEVER USE ANTI-SEIZE ON SLIDERS!"
Doing lots of searching and reading on this last night, I was surprised how many people say not to use anti-seize and how many say they swear by it. I couldn't believe how there wasn't a right/wrong answer....

 

[slavrenz]

I thank you all for taking the time to reply! I guess I was hoping for a more definitive answer to put my mind at ease... Like, "NO!! NEVER USE ANTI-SEIZE ON SLIDERS!"
Doing lots of searching and reading on this last night, I was surprised how many people say not to use anti-seize and how many say they swear by it. I couldn't believe how there wasn't a right/wrong answer....

The only bad thing that could happen is the antiseize could wear away, but it's not gonna attack any of the rubber pieces on the caliper, if that's what you're wondering.

Check your calipers in 1,000 miles just to be sure...

 

[i12drivemyMP5]

OK, I have to ask....Did he adjust the hex nut out for the new pad thickness then adjust it in where it is just close to rotor enough to self adjust when going in the street and jamming on the brakes while going backwards? Or did he adjust it where it seemed right without doing the back up thing in the street? If the latter, then it may be too tight & not letting the pads have room to back off the rotor when foot is off pedal.

 

[sethro_GT]

Oh, right. IMO anti-seize is not a lubricant it is for threads only (I use it on axle splines too) to prevent rust and intermetal conductivity from welding the two parts together. To use it on parts that slide is not appropriate. Use brake lube, thick green sticky stuff. I would recommend tearing them down, cleaning and using the right stuff.

 

[CrazyCaker]

You should be using a hi-temp silicone based grease (not the bad petrolium based crap), and nothing else.

 

[Wagonbacker9]

You should be using a hi-temp silicone based grease (not the bad petrolium based crap), and nothing else.

This is the "new school solution"... copper grease (which isn't anti-seeze per say) is the old school one. It used to be commonly used both on caliper sliders, and as an anti-squeak solution before anti-squeak shims came into common use.

What I would say is: I don't that is the source of your problem, but I would switch over to the more modern solution unless I was in a bind and only had access to the old stuff.

 

[Weborific]

OK, I have to ask....Did he adjust the hex nut out for the new pad thickness then adjust it in where it is just close to rotor enough to self adjust when going in the street and jamming on the brakes while going backwards? Or did he adjust it where it seemed right without doing the back up thing in the street? If the latter, then it may be too tight & not letting the pads have room to back off the rotor when foot is off pedal.

I don't think he adjusted anything! In fact, I recall him mentioning that there's no way to adjust these calipers. But I seemed to recall us finding an adjustment bolt last year. So I looked it up this morning and found a site describing the correct adjustment procedure. I copied and pasted the text in an email to him this morning. I'm currently printing the adjustment procedure straight from the Mazda service manual.

The worst part was that I was showing them how jammed the rear wheel was (couldn't turn HALF a revolution on spinning) and they were telling me IT'S NORMAL..... Right. Now I also notice that my front brakes are possibly the culprit for my poor mileage as both front wheels (while in neutral and with car on a lift) turn MAYBE one revolution when spinning. I'm pretty sure this isn't normal either. I understand they won't be as free-spinning as the rear. Can anybody tell me roughly how many revolutions I should get when I spin the wheels hard? THANKS!

 

[Weborific]

Can anyone tell me if adjusting the front calipers with an Allen key (like the rear calipers) is possible? I don't see it in the service manual. If my front brakes are dragging (I strongly believe they are), can anyone tell me if there's any adjustment or are my rebuilt calipers defective?

 

[Wagonbacker9]

that adjustment is for the Ebrake... so, no. what do you mean by dragging? they're floating calipers so they will always "drag" a little bit..

 

[Weborific]

Aside from the Ebrake, there is an adjustment for the caliper piston as follows:
Disc Pad Installation Note
1. Turn the manual adjustment gear
counterclockwise with an Allen wrench to pull the
brake caliper piston inward. (Turn until it stops.)
2. Install the disc pads.
3. Turn the manual adjustment gear clockwise until
the brake pads just touch the disc plate. Turn the
manual adjustment gear back 1/3-turn.

I was wondering if there was any adjustment for the front calipers. It appears there isn't.... I'm screwed

 

[Wagonbacker9]

thats the ebrake adjustment....
again... how much interference is there on the front calipers? are your rotors getting super hot or does your mileage suck? why do you think a brake is dragging?

 

[Weborific]

Thanks for replying!
My mileage has sucked for the last 2 years and I've done EVERYTHING (and I really mean EVERYTHING) to get it fixed. I even just changed my engine because the original failed compression on every cylinder. Aside from the front wheels not being able to turn more than ONCE when I spin them, I do believe my rotors are extremely hot. On a short trip in near-freezing temperatures, you can fry an egg on the front rotors while the rear are just warm. I even took a trip where I had the car on cruise control for hours before letting the car gently roll to a stop (I braked a little) and the rotors were burning up....

 

[Weborific]

And thanks for the clarification about the adjustment being for the Ebrake. Makes sense now why there's no adjustment on the front brakes...

 

[sethro_GT]

I dunno dude, based on what you're saying I would take the care to a brake shop. He's your bro and all but its getting ridiculous. just saying.

This is from page 4-11-22 of the brake section of the service manual:

CONVENTIONAL BRAKE SYSTEM
04–11–22
REAR BRAKE (DISC) REMOVAL/INSTALLATION
A3U041126980W02
1. Remove in the order indicated in the table.
2. Install in the reverse order of removal.
3. After installation, depress the pedal several times, rotate the wheel by hand, and verify that the brake does not
drag.
.
Disc Pad Installation Note
1. Turn the manual adjustment gear
counterclockwise with an Allen wrench to pull the
brake caliper piston inward. (Turn until it stops.)
2. Install the disc pads.
3. Turn the manual adjustment gear clockwise until
the brake pads just touch the disc plate. Turn the
manual adjustment gear back 1/3-turn.

 

[flash75]

Here is a link for checking and correcting brake drag.

http://www.canadiandriver.com/2004/...brakes-can-be-hazardous-on-slippery-roads.htm

There following quotes are from that article.

{On disc brakes, the most common problem is corrosion on the caliper slides. Many vehicles have “floating” calipers. The caliper is like a big C clamp with a piston on one side. The piston pushes against a brake pad, which pushes against the rotor. The force of the piston against the rotor causes the caliper to move on its slides so the second brake pad on the other side of the caliper is also clamped against the rotor. The brake fluid pressure is high enough to force the caliper to move to the clamped position, but sticking slides prevent it from releasing completely, so the brake drags.

A caliper that is slightly sticking may not be noticeable when road surfaces and traction are good, but on icy roads it can cause a wheel to slide when the brakes are released and the vehicle pulls to one side. The fix? Remove the brake caliper and clean and lubricate the slides.}

{The piston seal is a square cut seal ring inside the caliper bore. When brake fluid pushes the piston out, the seal ring distorts slightly as the piston slides through it. When the pedal is released, the seal ring returns to its relaxed state and pulls the piston back slightly as it does. Corrosion on the pistons, dirt or sludge in the caliper bore or hardened seal rings can all prevent the piston from releasing, and the brakes drag. The fix? Rebuild or replace the calipers.}

It's normal for the front brakes on a front wheel drive to be hotter than the rear, the front brakes are responsible for about 80% of the braking effort.

Flexible brake hoses on older cars can deteriorate and collapse inside causing the barakes to release slowly and drag.

If you aren't changing your brake each fluid 2-3 years it's good idea to start changing it, you will have fewer brake problems.

Clifton