False Horsepower Rating

[Nismothecat]

i dont see the point in this argument. when i had my MS3 i got crazy wheelspin shifting into 2nd. if we had full boost in 1st and 2nd it would probably make our cars slower.


what do i know though, it seems filing frivolous lawsuits is an american past time.

 

[Saskatchewan17]

^What do you have now?^

 

[pcpower]

From a legal viewpoint I am guessing that Mazda's 263 HP statement is in-line with how other automobile manufacturers estimate their own HP. If something were hugely off in their estimates then I'm sure automobile magazines would have been all over it right when the car was released.

 

[Nismothecat]

^What do you have now?^

got a great deal on an Evo X.
loved the MS3, but hated the FWD.

 

[Speedkid]

Nice a evo x can't go wrong with that.

 

[oaklandopen]

Nice a evo x can't go wrong with that.

i saw something in a car&driver or motortrend about some evo special edition (something like fxx-400 or exx-400 or some s***) that is upgraded from the factory to like 400+ hp. it goes 0-60 in like 3.8.

kicker is that not only does it cost either $70k or $70k more than base price but it's also not offered in the US...europe only

probably shoulda googled before making up some of that s*** but i know the 3.8 seconds is what i read

 

[Nismothecat]

you can get 400 crank hp for about 2k on the Evo X

 

[oaklandopen]

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/05/26/officially-official-mitsubishi-evolution-x-fq400-coming-to-the/

ok so totally blatent threadjacking. it's the equivalent of $70,000 USD. but for that money you get the driveability and upgraded strength of components that you wouldn't if you were to just do little "cheap" bolt on s***

 

[Circle9]

Eh, $70,000 will get me a Z06 that will do 3.5 to 60.

 

[oaklandopen]

Eh, $70,000 will get me a Z06 that will do 3.5 to 60.

true...but 4 doors could really come in handy to some ppl

 

[Circle9]

I doubt a family man would be dropping $70,000 into a 4 door just so he could carry his kids around.

 

[HOBDisease]

+1

 

[Kindred]

I doubt a family man would be dropping $70,000 into a 4 door just so he could carry his kids around.

Especially one that, despite it's power and other goodies, is still based on a cheap econobox.

 

[xxxmonoxidechil]

my old tiburon was over rated by hyundai when it came out by 4hp. hyundai gave every current owner a $100 check, or $200 store credit for the lie.

so this say's hyundai is quite beyond mazda in quality, even AFTER purchase where it really matters. kinda sad.

 

[RotorDad]

Has anyone considered filing a claim against Mazda for falsely advertising the HP of the MS3?
I have an '08.5 MS3 and have always felt that the car didn't have the power in the lower 3 gears that it should have. I knew that there was some torque management stuff going on, but until recently didn't know how much.
From what I could find searching the net, the estimated peak Engine (not wheel) HP in gears 1-3 is:
1st gear: ~170HP
2nd gear: ~225HP
3rd gear: ~238HP

As a result, it's not until 5,500 rpm in 4th gear that we actually see the full 263HP that's advertised. That turns out to be at 85mph.
So, Mazda is advertising a 263HP car that can not achieve that power rating legally on any public road.

If my memory is correct, there was a lawsuit in Ohio for a similar reason that resulted in lawnmowers not being rated by HP any more. The basis of the lawsuit was that the HP ratings on lawnmower engines were the "peak" power ratings of the engines, which typically occurred at 5,500~6,000 rpm. But during operation of the lawnmower, the optimal blade speed was 3,600 rpm. Therefore the manufacturers were misleading the consumers as the peak horsepower was never achieved during the intended operation of the mower. If you check the local hardware store, you'll see that almost all mowers are now advertised by their torque rating.

Anyways, where I'm going with this is that it seems all of us MS3 owners have an opportunity to either return our cars and get our money back for false advertising, or force Mazda to offer an option to remove the power limiting in the first 3 gears.

I see a lot of members have spent thousands of $$ trying to boost the performance of their cars to essentially get around something that is intentionally limiting the power in the first place. The biggest and best single performance boost the MS3 could get would be to take the shackles off of the gears 1-3.

Anyone else agree?

 

[mckraut]

Shocking that the OP hasn't said anything since the first post.

 

[oaklandopen]

I doubt a family man would be dropping $70,000 into a 4 door just so he could carry his kids around.

but there are ppl who do just that. let's not forget we (now as it seems) live in a 2 tier society. so for every family person that gets a used 4 door civic theres someone else getting a 4 door mercedes.

i took this pic a few months ago...the guy had a kid in a car seat in the back. i'll bet even though he loves his car he hates that it's only 2 doors and he has to buckle up his kid in the back

Especially one that, despite it's power and other goodies, is still based on a cheap econobox.

like the ms3? lol

 

[MSMS3]

Shocking that the OP hasn't said anything since the first post.

I noticed that too. And that crock about there being a power hold back in third gear and not getting full power until late in fourth is just flat wrong. Realize that I have some modest mods. But I'm running stock ECU tune. This attached chart shows that I develop full power (actually max power) at the very beginning of THIRD gear. While the ECU limits torque and therefore power in the lower two gears, there is absolutely no ECU hold back by the beginning of third, only 4.5 seconds into a WOT run.

BTW, brief sharp vertical spikes are electrical system artifact and should be ignored. Also note that this is real time accelerometer data collected on the open road. Aerodynamic drag is significant after you get in third gear. This pulls down the power -- you never see this effect on a chassis dyno.

 

[MikeHTally]

Shocking that the OP hasn't said anything since the first post.

Happens a lot on the forums I visit. A "Run-by posting"!

 

[KeizerSpeed3]

Sorry, guys.
I've been away on business this week and just got back into town.

Several people have questioned whether or not it was serious or not..... the answer is 50/50 yes and no.

I knew that in general more would disagree than agree, but on the other hand it still pisses me off that a car manufacturer doesn't have to provide full disclosure.
As I said when I bought the car, I knew there was some power limiting in 1st and 2nd gears, but honestly, I thought it would still deliver over 200 hp in each gear.
A buddy at work has a an '07 Golf GTI with a 6-speed Manual, and I gotta say that up to 60 it feels like it pulls just as hard as my Speed3. I thought the MS3 should have been able to leave his ass in the dust.

Again, the point is that Mazda sold a lot of these cars by prominently advertising the 63HP advantage it had over the Civic SI and GTI. In most real world driving, the power advantage just isn't there.

How could you not agree that it should have been documented somewhere in the Mazda literature exactly what we were buying?

What if you bought a High Def TV and found that it ran in normal resolution from 8:00AM to Noon every day, because the manufacturer decided you just don't need that much High Def?