Everyones occupation

[big_ben]

Don't get me wrong, not all of the teachers in the public edu. system are useless. I want to public schools and I had a few great teachers that deserved much more than they were getting paid. But I think you could agree that those teachers are few and far between. You sound like you are one of those that deserve more. I only had two teachers that really saw my intelligence and encouraged me to go on to college. They were great teachers. One of them was my algebra teacher, and the other was my TAG(gifted) teacher. But the rest were pretty much useless idiots that got lost in the system somewhere. But I went to school in Alabama,....what can you expect. And no we didn't go to school barefoot.
As for 1st MP3, sorry, but the knowlege base that a real, degreed, engineer with only one year of experience is much better than a guy with an associates and 5 years of experience. That is just the facts of life. That's why a degreed engineer gets paid much more.

 

[big_ben]

Our network admin.'s are just plain lazy. They never answer their phones because they know they are about to have to actually do some work.

 

[ironman]

Let me see if I've got this right. You want me to go into that
room with all those kids, and fill their every waking moment with a
love for learning.

Not only that, I'm to instill a sense of pride in their ethnicity, behaviorally modify disruptive behavior, and observe them for signs of abuse. I am to fight the war on drugs and sexually transmitted diseases, check their backpacks for guns and raise their self-esteem.

I'm to teach them patriotism, good citizenship, sportsmanship and fair
play, how and where to register to vote, how to balance a checkbook and how to apply for a job, but I am never to ask if they are in this country illegally.

I am to check their heads occasionally for lice, maintain a safe
environment, recognize signs of potential antisocial behavior, offer advice, write letters of recommendation for student employment and scholarships, encourage a respect for the cultural diversity of others, and, oh yeah, teach, always making sure that I give the girls in my class fifty percent of my attention.

I'm required by my contract to be working on my own time (summers
and evenings) and at my own expense towards additional certification, advanced certification and a master's degree, to sponsor the cheerleaders or the sophomore class (my choice) and after school. I am to attend committee and faculty meetings and participate in staff development training to maintain my current certification and employment status.

I am to be a paragon of virtue larger than life, such that my very presence will awe my students into being obedient and respectful of authority. I am often given "advise" on how to do my job by every person ever to have gone to school before and I am to do it with just a piece of chalk, a few books
and a bulletin board, and on a starting salary that qualifies my
family for food stamps in many states.

Is that all?

 

[cmack98]

Ironman, I'm with you....Teachers are the unsung heroes of todays workforce. Everyone can say what they want about sucking at something else, can't do this that or the other thing, so they fell back on teaching...whatever.

In this day and age where the majority of the kids are flat out ignorant and disrespectful, it takes courage to get in there and try to be a positive rolemodel to kids who don't know what a positive role model is. In this day and age where kids do everything BUT listen, its a rough gig. I'd give 1st MP3 in NH 10 minutes in front of a class room before he left crying. On top of all that, you have to keep that Columbine stuff in the back of your head and pray that these kids don't freak out.

Teachers are underpaid and underappreciated. Putting personal feelings aside about previous teachers, and putting your choice of profession aside, you cannot argue that fact.

Craig Rudzenski. Playstation Engineer

 

[ironman]

Thank you Craig! Well said (bowdown)

If you have kids, I bet they are the kind of students I love to have in class.

 

[big_ben]

You shouldn't have become a teacher. I was in Army in the Military Intelligence branch. I was responsible for 2.2 million dollars worth of unmanned airplane everyday at work. If I crashed it and it was my negligence that caused it, guess who's ass would be in prison. At the same time, there was a cook somewhere in a cafeteria that was cooking hamburgers and got paid the same amount as I did. I knew it sucked, so I did my four years and got out. I suggest you go back to school so you can start a career in something you like.

 

[ironman]

Ben, you may have missed my point, or, perhaps, I was not clear. I don't dislike my job..well, that's not entirely true, I dislike parts of it. Parts of it I love. I simple bristle at individuals who criticize without ever having done any time in the "teaching trenches." I don't blame others for my life choices or my short-comings, and I would like to return to school some day when I am financially able and under fewer familial obligations. I wouldn't presume to criticize your field of employment if I had never worked in it. I simply ask the same of others.

 

[big_ben]

Craig Rudzenski. Playstation Engineer

I noticed that little jab. You still aren't an engineer though.

As for respecting teachers, I totally respect teachers. I would never in a lifetime want to do what they do. Does that mean we should pay them more,....no. That is the main problem. What most of the teachers want is recognition for the job they do and the respect they deserve. In today's society, people would rather just pay someone off than show them recognition and respect. It's the same as the job I had in the army. We (the pilots who actually flew the planes and controlled the cameras and lasers) got zero recognition for what we did. Our commanders always got the rewards for the work that we did. The long flight hours with no sleep. The maximum amount of hours you are supposed to fly is 12 hours, then you need 12 off. I flew 14 hour flights when we first went to Kosovo. Did I complain, no, I knew it was for a good purpose, and I'd probably get a medal for it after we got back. But guess what, we got back and the commander got a medal for having a company that logged the most flight hours out of any flight group, including bombers and fighters, for one month. I nor did anyone else get s*** except for a service medal.
I knew I wasn't going to get any extra pay for it, so I just wanted to at least get recognized for it, but nothing. I think the same feelings apply to teachers. No one gives you any recognition, so most teachers get pissed and start ranting, "give me more money because I'm underappretiated". That's the way it has always been and that is the way it will always be. If you don't like it, go back to school for something that pays better.

 

[jhanson9]

I think you guys lose focus, i think they are talking about elementary, middle, high school teachers... College professors, I think would have an awesome job, they get paid probably as much as some good professions, and only work maybe 10 hours a week, unless they are doing research..

 

[cmack98]

No kids yet...we are 26 yrs old (wife and I) and we are going to start trying....

If big_ben started a discussion about his airplanes and how the cook makes as much as him, I would also agree with him. I would also say pretty much the same stuff. He's right its up to the individual...if they like it than great, if not, look for another job....

If I could get a job where my wife could quit and have kids, I'd be all about it...Wether it be teaching, cooking, anything...just right now, I can't find another job!

I just got sick and tired of hearing people on this board trash the teachers. When I was in school I had guys like that in my classes, and I can see them saying everything that was posted before. I shook my head at their ingnorance then, and I shake my head at their ignorance now...

 

[big_ben]

It boils down to this, if you like your job and really enjoy doing it, you won't complain about your pay unless you can't support your family. I'd rather have a job that I only liked a little bit but got paid like a king. Take me for example, I started out in Aerospace Engineering. That is truely what I want to do in life. But the market for aerospace engineering is very small. So I made the decision to go to civil engineering because it is easier to get a job anywhere in the US. If I were an aerospace engineer, I would have only a limited number of places that I could live and have a job. I would much rather be an aerospace engineer, but life is full of difficult choices.

 

[ironman]

Ben, I would be happier with the money if I got to just TEACH, especially to kids who wanted to learn. The greater pay issue comes in when you look at all teachers have to do besides, and often inspite of, teaching. Everyone cries for "excellence, excellence for our children!" but no one is willing to pay for it especially if it means even a modest increase in taxes. Something you may not know: It is also not just about salary. It is about benefits. In Texas, teachers do not get good health coverage. We are OWED at least that. Did you know that to cover yourself and your family it can cost upwards of $700/month for basic health coverage out of pocket! Couple that with the already low salaries, and it can leave a lot of us struggling to survive. Whether I leave the profession or not does nothing to help bring good quality people in to teach your kids. Do you really want or support a system that only has your so-called dumbass sorority-chic type instructors teaching our youth..your kids? Do you really advocate good people leaving to do other things where all you are left with is the dregs? Does this help society? We are the gate-keepers. The last line of learning. You use circular logic. Something still needs to be done. You don't get A-list talent with piss-poor pay and benefits.

 

[big_ben]

Hey, you are completely right. I worked 12+ hour days in the military and got paid just under about $2000 a month. Although the benefits were great. I am basically going to college for free because of the time I served. So I'll be getting out of college debt free unlike all of my co workers with $60,000+ debt. There is no easy answer for teachers. I do agree about the medical insurance, all public school teachers should get state or federal supported insurance and a retirement program. But as for the payrate, that's not so easy. You give it to one teacher that deserves good pay, then all the other dumbass sorority chics want it too even though they don't deserve it. That's where testing comes in. If you want more pay, you should be tested on what you know.

 

[ironman]

Ben, look at it this way. We really need good teachers. Just like we really need good civil engineers. Without good civil engineers much of what we take for granted in this country grinds to a halt, and we look more like some third-world s*** hole. Correct? Now imagine that even though we really need these engineers we decide to pay them 24k a year and hit them for $600 month for insurance. How many truly good and dedicated civil engineers would we have left? How long would it be before everyone started complaining about the "quality" of civil engineering? You guys are the best in the world because you get paid for your expertise. I just get ridiculed and criticized for mine. So what you are saying is that educating our youth has no real value in our society and is best left to losers who couldn't do anything else.

 

[1sty]

1st MP3 in NH- It is blindly obvious that the educational system failed you in some way or wait, maybe it was your parents, or better yet, you failed yourself. I was wrong to call you an idiot as such a statement does disservice to idiots everywhere. In our culture of blame-throwing, you will soon discover that your inability to assume responsibility for your own short-comings (you admit doing next to nothing to further your own education) will undoubtedly lead to you becoming a drain on society in some fashion. The Lord helps those who help themselves. Typical, whiny teenage philosophy of never wanting to take responsibility for ones own actions. If you didnt learn anything, you didnt work hard enough. We are teachers not saviors. We can lead you to knowledge, but we cant force you to learn anything or to stay awake. I would love to see any real sources you might have corroborating your ascertains of teacher failure in Mass or anywhere. Maybe you slept through the lessons about the difference between fact and opinion or the importance of backing up ascertains with credible sources?

Ah another person reading one sentace and assuming it covered everything.
I never said I blaimed anyone for anything. Not to mention the fact I aced every class I took with out showing up. Can't say that for the kids that went.
Also I realize what it is about me a people like Ben that piss off teacher. We can see right through your bulls***. We could in school and we can now. Any teachers that deserved my praise recieved it and those that didn't I still treated with respect.

 

[ironman]

1st MP3 in NH here is something you would do well to hang on your wall and memorize:

Better to be silent and thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt.

 

[1sty]

You guys are the best in the world because you get paid for your expertise. I just get ridiculed and criticized for mine.

No one is saying youre not a good teacher. Also no one has said GOOD teachers don't deserve more money. In fact we all have agreed that they do. The problem is the simplicity in which someone can become a teacher. Any district worth a damn pays teachers more for length of service and for educational background.

This still however in no way off sets those that are unqualified to teach as they have no talent at teaching at all. Having been an English office aid I know teachers realize this just as much as everyone else.

Also accountability has been brought up. How is a school supposed to hold a teacher accountable? After all it could always be the parents fault the child doesn't learn or it could be that the kid simply won't learn. Could be. However if in large a student body is not learning that is with out a doubt the teachers fault. If a Bridge doesn't come together in the Middle thats someone like Bens fault. If your control panel doesn't work thats my fault.

As for your tired ass clich I have a favorite of teachers everywhere for you.

If I can make a difference to one child its been worth it.
The true belief of a failure!
To bad you were paid to teach over 100
Jack Off.

 

[Protege01MP3]

ok
1. I agree w/ ironman in the fact that alot of teachers do all they can to help kids in school... and it is up to the kids to help themselves. However, there are teachers that do a much better job at motivating students than others do. This is where I agree w/ 1st mp3, and I really believe that he did give respect the teachers who he thought did an exceptional, or even good job. There are always those teachers who are bitter and rude to their students, whether it be from years of having horrible students, or being burnt out on the job.

2. 1st mp3, are you sure you aced EVERY class?? Even spelling/english? There were a few typos in that last post

3. Ironman, you are obviously not quite as intelligent as the language portrayed in your second to last post. The reason I say this is because you are trying to cover up the fact that you are being extremely childish with an "intelligent" or "wise" adage. The fact that 1st mp3 isn't particularly fond of teachers really doesn't (or I should say shouldn't) affect the world you live in in any way shape or form. I'm sure that are hundreds of thousands of students out there who dislike, or even loath some or all of their teachers. Are you going to make it your personal mission to find them all and make your point known?

--I just hopped into this thread again, and saw just the last couple posts... I just went back and read the last page or so and have a couple more comments--

1. Ironman. As for your post as to what is expected of you. Yes. That is all expected. You should have known that when you entered the field. It is said that to be a teacher, the students and the work have to be more important to you than the pay. This seems like it MAY be the case with you. However, then you go and post about how too much is expected of you and you don't get paid enough. Granted, teachers should be able to live comfortably, but you just don't seem like your heart is really into it. If you REALLY enjoyed teaching and helping mold a young persons life, then you wouldn't be complaining about this. You could have just noted what is expected of you, rather than post somewhat of a rant about it, including that you aren't paid well enough.

Basically, I feel that if the only teachers we had were the ones that really wanted to teach, and wanted to encourage students and help them learn, then the school system would be much better off. I think that the children in the school systems would enjoy learning more, would participate more, would have better relationships with their teachers and would generally develop better social skills as well as knowledge of the difference between right and wrong.

However, (yah.. theres always a catch) if this was the case, there wouldn't be even close to HALF as many teachers as we have now. Either classrooms would be packed with 60-70 students, and none would get the attention they need, plus not to mention the fact that the teacher would not be able to keep a handle on things, or there would be many children unable to get an education.

I'm not siding with anyone, nor am I flaming or putting anyone down. You both make valid points, but you are both on two different ends of the spectrum, and cannot see from the other persons point of view. C'mon Ironman... I know you had atleast 1 teacher you really disliked throughout the time you spent in school.

 

[1sty]

well said Protege01MP3

The funny thing is I actualy ran my last post through Microsoft word for spelling.

Damn I suck at spelling.

But in response yes I actualy got A's in English too. Just goes to show anyone can.

 

[DeputySherif]

fixed income trader (bonds and mortgages).