ecu-turbo/supercharger question

[miataguy2cyprus]

about bolt-on turbos and S/C :
as i've seen, most bolt-on turbos working at 0.5 bar (7.5 psi) on NA miatas they dont need a powercard or ecu piggy-back. does this apply to NB miatas?
except from a fuel presure regulator what else do you need for fueling management?

 

[k-lea]

(uhm)

 

[miataguy2cyprus]

ok, i know my syntax is not the best shortly: do you need any modifications on ecu for bolt-on turbo kits?

 

[k-lea]

Yes, engine management.

ps: you really threw me off. haha.

Either I'm not understanding the question or I have no idea what is going on and this is the extent of my knowledge. How do you have NA's running around with turbo's without a proper EMS setup? Unless the ECU is just that cool..

 

[miataguy2cyprus]

http://www.eautoworks.com/html/ord-Auto~performance-Turbo~Kit-1-4741.htm

i can post dozens of pages selling that kit without any piggy-back. logicaly with a fuel pressure regulator it will run fuel-rich enough for 7psi. wont it?

 

[k-lea]

"Vehicles already equipped with turbochargers have engines with a large potential for power, which cannot be fully obtained by using the factory turbochargers. By replacing the stock turbocharger with a GReddy turbo upgrade kit; you can experience a powerful performance difference."

Mainly because a stock turbocharged car has a ECU that has all the good stuff that allows it to handle boost, etc.

Are you getting lost on "Why doesn't the piggy-back come with the turbo?"

I shouldn't have even responded. I'm totally confused..

 

[miataguy2cyprus]

"It takes a tremendous amount of time and money to successfully increase the power of a naturally aspirated engine. With GReddy bolt-on turbocharger kits, you can obtain instant horsepower gains with less time and money, while still having room for upgrading."

could that piggy-back be in "still having room for upgrading" list? most probably you are right but still i'm not sure and i wouldn't like to start a project without being sure about it :|

 

[k-lea]

Has to.

Take your car for example.

Say we dumped a turbo on it, the ECU would s*** itself. You have to bypass the ECU and purchase a EMS (engine management system) so your car can handle the turbo. Within the EMS you'll have all kinds of goodies, such as what you listed above, fuel. (atleast all the ones I've seen)

 

[miataguy2cyprus]

hmmm, i guess i'll have to rexamine the centrifigual supercharging project. thanks k-lea (2thumbs)

 

[MiaTurbo]

If you're only pushing 7psi at the most, the stock ECU should be able to keep up, but you will need to do a few things: you need to adress the fuel since the stock injectors will not keep up well, this can be done with a AFPR that usually comes with the kits, or bigger injectors (ie: putting 1.8l injectors on a 1.6l); you need to adress timing so it will not blow up so you can keep low end advanced timing, and top end timng retard. you can add a piggy back to take over some of the function to help with injector duty cycles, and timing.

Idealy you'd want a full stand alone ECu if you are modifing so you can take complete control of fuel and timing peramiters.

the greddy kit which is only 5-6 psi only comes wiht a AFPR, and get another 40hp or so.

 

[miataguy2cyprus]

AFRP = fuel presure regulator? i have already installed one of those. so i guess no injections needed? about the spark firing timing what is the best-cheap&reliable- solution? this will be a low budget project for less than 40bhp (holiday at europe come first)

thnx mia-turbo (2thumbs)

 

[MiaTurbo]

you can get a Bipes to help out with the timing. It's about $150US or so, but I don't know what it would cost to send it to Europe. But it will be a good for that, it will retard timing based on intake air temps, and airflow.

 

[k-lea]

There you go..I was waiting on him.

 

[MiaTurbo]

bipes link:
http://www.frontiernet.net/~bipesauto/BipesACU/

-edit- sorry, the bipes is NA only. I have homework to do now, but I can find you something else later.

-edit 2-homework done. The Jackson Racing timing control unit operates off of boost, but is in the upper price range for you. http://www.miatamania.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=36419

For refrence, my '91 Miada, which had 180k+ miles on it when dyno'ed, made 154hp with 6psi, and a Bipes. Also free flowing 2.5" exhaust with a highflow cat, and muffler. So your goals are achievable.

 

[MiaTurbo]

oh, 1 last thing: if you're skill level is up there, you can build a MegaSquirt ECU for about $300 give or take depending on where you buy, and what not. But when I say build, I mean actually soldering the cicuit board and whatnot. http://www.megasquirt.info/ it's about as grassroots as you can get. When I have the time, that's how i'm going

 

[kcbhiw]

Once again, I'll back MiaTurbo. He hit the nail on the head.

I've tried the RRFPR and the bipes. They work well enough to get by and the ECU won't have many (if any) issues. However, as Fadi said, the Megasquirt is definately the most cost effective solution especially when implemented in standalone mode. If you're not up to par with building your own electronic circuit boards, pre-assembled kits can be had for a nominal fee from various vendors.

The only issue you may have a problem with is emissions. Tuning a standalone to pass will be a lot "easier" than adding larger injectors and/or blatently adding fuel.

 

[k-lea]

*learns*

 

[miataguy2cyprus]

k-lea
*told ya*


MiaTurbo

-edit** i've already installed apexi iridium sparks, jasma headers 4-2-1 and free flow twister exhaust syster so that i can get thee best of the supercharger.**

No way for DIY Megasquirt. i do DIY in the enginebay but never on the electronics ( my radio still has problems cause of bad wiring).
i was thinking for a used e-manage blue (i found 1 or 2 in the local market at about $200) the problem with it is that you need special skills for programming it. and as far as i know at the local mechanics they charge $200 for mapping it and about $170 vor every time you need to change something which will be a problem.

what about apexi-afc? it looks user-friendly and easy to install/use.

 

[k-lea]

I don't know much when it comes to NA engines. I had NO idea the Miata ECU could handle 7psi without proper management.

Everyday you learn something new, nothing wrong with that.

 

[miataguy2cyprus]

yeap, and especialy today i learned a lot of new things. did any of you "made" a Megasquirt? i wouldnt be excited by doing something wrong and *mpam* "was that a misfiring or a brakedown?"