Drivetrain lash...worries
- Thread starter P5inder
- Start date
P-Funk! said:
Thanks, but no...I'm not lugging it...I can tell the diference between the two. I did that many times when test driving the car nearly stalling it, just getting used to the depth at which the clutch engaged and such. The clatter was definitely audible.
There is no noise or clatter made by the motion of the engine in my problem, well, no noise except for the change rattling around as the engine bucks back and forth...
I try to keep my rpm's low to conserve fuel and the clutch...I too shift gears at no higher than 3000 RPMS, depending on the landscape...
P5inder said:
Did you install the AWR mounts? If not, I would def look into those. I baought both RR-Racing inserts but have only installed the front due to the added difficulty of installing the rear. Its possible the previous owner sis the same thing. If you only have the from AWR mount, then that puts more stress on the rear mount which will cause it to fail.
It may be difficult to verify which mount is in the back unless you jack the car at the front jacking point and crawl under.
I drive at the 1000-3000 range too, and I find a lot of lash as well. Well, just to be clear, it feels like the engine is rocking back and forth, and this is what I've always thought drivetrain lash was.P5inder said:
I find that you can avoid it by slipping the clutch a lot and engaging it very carefully and gingerly when launching. And when shifting from 1 to 2, it can be avoided by matching the revs perfectly and slipping the clutch slightly to make sure. A pain, to be certain.
clicknext said:
Rocking back and forth is exactly what I feel...although since I do have both Front and Rear AWR mounts and one filled mount, it might now be side to side...
Its slipping the clutch slowly that enacts the rocking. If I engage the clutch quickly at around 1500 to 2000 rpm's, it does not happen and it does not happen when I shift to any other gear other than reverse.
P5inder said:
That bolt has a weird collar on it which is what you are seeing. There is a spacer behind the collar that makes it look like the bolt is loose. that is probably not going to be a source of any trouble for you.
I think the main problem is you need to be a little more agressive with your right foot. If you look at a dyno graph of the FS-DE it doesn't start making good torque until after 3500rpm. If you are trying to engage the clutch under 2000rpm then it will lug the motor down and cause the bucking you are describing.
RenzoMSP said:
The rear is pretty unbearable. I don't care what anybody says, I didn't buy a Harley, it's a Mazda.
This bucking at low RPM is the clutch. It happens every morning at my drivethru for coffee. I had AWR's all around and it didn't fix a damn thing except wheel hop.
CrazyCaker
Member
- :
- '10 Stang GT / '06 Mazda5 GT
You've got clutch shudder (chatter) for sure. Nothing more imo. The OEM clutch/flywheel combo are known for this problem.
jimmybrite
Member
- :
- Mazda Protege 2002 LX
xelderx said:
There's actually a section about rock chips in the windshield? lol
I cracked my windshield last week, well the weather did, because I parked it in an outside parking lot, when I got my car @ 11p.m. there was a nice crack in my windshield, mind you it was -30 -40 c, Outside.
I'm also having a bit of lash at low rpm's too (below 1500), this is esp bad in an interior parking lot. Could this be related to my 3rd gear popping out/Grindage issue?
jimmybrite said:
If the motormounts are broken or worn enough it could cause the motor/tranny to move in such a way as to knock it out of gear since we have linkages instead of cable shifters. In that case it would only do it under heavy acceleration of deceleration using engine braking. If you are just going along at a steady state and it pops out of gear that is a different issue. The grinding sounds like a synchro problem, but it is more common on the 1st to 2nd shift.
xelderx said:
..this might explain why this happens to me in bumper-to-bumper traffic, especially in 2nd after hitting the gas - if I let the engine rev down without hitting the clutch and then hit the gas, the car will buck. I have to literally feather the throttle until i get some power then its ok. Maybe thats not lash (mechanic described this as the injectors doing something) hehe.
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I get the same thing. Very, VERY bad in 1st in a parking lot so every time I take my foot off the throttle I have to hit the clutch. It bucks even when feathering the throttle sometimes. But on the road in that situation, if not using the clutch, jamming my foot down on the gas avoids the bucking bronco sometimes. =Dmzdalvr said:
Ok...well here are the photos of the mounts...more specifically the rear mount.
I understand that if placed correctly, the rubber collar should not cause problems, however, it sems as if it is not placed correctly.
Can anyone verify that it is - or is't - placed correctly?
If this shuddering is casued by the stock clutch and I need to be more aggressive with my right foot, then this is BS. Sorry, but I thought these cars were meant to have good driveability...this is very far removed from that statement. In fact, I am very sorry, and lease do not take this personally but if I didn't exerience this from a cheap American product, it upsets me that I have to stand it from a more expensive, supposedly better engineered, Japanese product. Cheap, weak, poorly designed and built motormounts and clutch shudder?
One should not need to rev the engine beyond 12000-1500 to get going on a flat surface.
N E way, enough of my bitching...sorry everyone. I gues I'll go to the stealership and get my clutch replaced.
Here are the photos.
I understand that if placed correctly, the rubber collar should not cause problems, however, it sems as if it is not placed correctly.
Can anyone verify that it is - or is't - placed correctly?
If this shuddering is casued by the stock clutch and I need to be more aggressive with my right foot, then this is BS. Sorry, but I thought these cars were meant to have good driveability...this is very far removed from that statement. In fact, I am very sorry, and lease do not take this personally but if I didn't exerience this from a cheap American product, it upsets me that I have to stand it from a more expensive, supposedly better engineered, Japanese product. Cheap, weak, poorly designed and built motormounts and clutch shudder?
One should not need to rev the engine beyond 12000-1500 to get going on a flat surface.
N E way, enough of my bitching...sorry everyone. I gues I'll go to the stealership and get my clutch replaced.
Here are the photos.
Attachments
From reading what you are experiencing it doesn't seem so much like clutch chatter as you are just lugging the motor down too far. It's not a big V8. Let someone else drive your car and see if it still bucks. Have them drive it their way and then make them drive it your way. That will be a good test if it's you or the car.
oh...yea...that collar on the rear motormount is fine.
oh...yea...that collar on the rear motormount is fine.
jimmybrite
Member
- :
- Mazda Protege 2002 LX
Well it's not so bad for me, it's when I don't press the clutch while driving slow, it's rare that i'll just ride my accelerator.And the popping out I read on a website that talks about all the booboos and issues of the pro that when you rebuild the tranny they just put a carbon synchro @ 3-4 gear, Now what I wanna know, does protegegarage's tranny rebuild kit contain this?
Right now it's super cold so i'm having issues just when it's cold and my gear oil is MOLASSES (50/50 lucas and semi synthetic tranny fluid)
Right now it's super cold so i'm having issues just when it's cold and my gear oil is MOLASSES (50/50 lucas and semi synthetic tranny fluid)
Ok...I paid a little more attention to my driving on the way to work today to see if I could figure out what was going on. My car has a lightweight flywheel which will probably affect the #s a little.
When I start from a dead stop I'm slipping the clutch between 1750rpm and 2000rpm. Once the momentum of the car is sufficient to sustain it's speed at 2000rpm I can release the clutch fully. Anything below 1500rpm is too low and with my light flywheel it is extremely hard to keep the car from stalling without slipping the clutch too much. If I'm starting on an uphill slope I have to use a few more rpms to get it going. Once I'm moving anything below 2000rpm is just lugging the motor down. I shift around 4500rpm under normal driving which means the car is around 3500rpm when I get it into the next gear. My cars torque curve rises sharply around 3300rpm so I'm right in the sweet spot for pulling through the next gear. If I get to a speed where I know I'll be cruising for awhile I will make the one extra upshift to drop the rpms below 4000rpm.
When I start from a dead stop I'm slipping the clutch between 1750rpm and 2000rpm. Once the momentum of the car is sufficient to sustain it's speed at 2000rpm I can release the clutch fully. Anything below 1500rpm is too low and with my light flywheel it is extremely hard to keep the car from stalling without slipping the clutch too much. If I'm starting on an uphill slope I have to use a few more rpms to get it going. Once I'm moving anything below 2000rpm is just lugging the motor down. I shift around 4500rpm under normal driving which means the car is around 3500rpm when I get it into the next gear. My cars torque curve rises sharply around 3300rpm so I'm right in the sweet spot for pulling through the next gear. If I get to a speed where I know I'll be cruising for awhile I will make the one extra upshift to drop the rpms below 4000rpm.
Ok,
Thanks for all your advice...I've driven the car with someone else, and I've let them drive the car...they agree the motor is not lugging.
Their idea is that the clutch disk is slipping, hence the judder. The RPMS stay the same even when the juddering is hapening...it does not fluctuate...also, the engine sounds like its running smooth, (other than the jarring) not at the point of stalling or anything of the sort.
So, as much as this ticks me off...I'm going to go to the stealership and have them assess it...I just don't want to have work done for the judder to continue...I don't really want to let the stealership change the clutch as; especially considering they'll probably charge me an arm, a leg and my two children...
I'll report back on the results...
Thanks for all your advice...I've driven the car with someone else, and I've let them drive the car...they agree the motor is not lugging.
Their idea is that the clutch disk is slipping, hence the judder. The RPMS stay the same even when the juddering is hapening...it does not fluctuate...also, the engine sounds like its running smooth, (other than the jarring) not at the point of stalling or anything of the sort.
So, as much as this ticks me off...I'm going to go to the stealership and have them assess it...I just don't want to have work done for the judder to continue...I don't really want to let the stealership change the clutch as; especially considering they'll probably charge me an arm, a leg and my two children...
I'll report back on the results...
