Drivetrain lash...worries

P

P5inder

Member
:
2002 Protege 5
Hey all,

I need help diagnosing a problem.

I'm very worried about the continuing drivetrain lash that I'm experiencing.(omg)

I've replaced the front and rear motor mounts with those from AWR. I've also replaced the motormount on the passenger side with a stock, filled mount.

FYI - All three mounts were completely torn, with the one on the passenger side the worse off.

Even with these three mounts, I am getting insane drivetrain lash...

Will I need to replace/fill the fourth (transmission side) as well?

Is there something else that could be causing this?

Do our cars have lash adjusters? If so, where?


The shaking has changed as I replace the mounts. It went from very violent low repetitions to less violent with higher repetition to not nearly as violent with all stock mounts, yet very high repetition. By repetition I mean the speed at which the engine bucks back and forth. low reps = slow bucking/high reps = fast bucking.

I can only surmise that the three mounts are keeping the engine from bucking as far as before but, I need this to stop. It is very, very anoying and I'm sure it can't be good for the engine, tranny or the exhaust.

I bought the car used and it's been there ever since about a week after I bought it. I don't remember feeling it during the test drive...

Any help or recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!
 
I don't think what you're getting now is lash, it's just vibrations from the motor being transmitted into the cabin through the MUCH stiffer mounts.
 
No, i'm pretty sure its lash...I feel the vibrations but everytime I try to get going at low rpm's -anything between 1000-1500 rpms- I get lash.

Its definitely lash. Maybe I shouldn't take off at such low RPM's but I don't see why...Idid the same in my Neon...and no lash, what-so-ever.

Sometimes, the clutch grabs, sending the rpms below 1500 and then the bucking begins. Its especially bad in reverse...

Could it be the clutch?

Maybe I'll have to buy the motor mount inserts fort he last mount...then see...but that means two more weeks of driving a little bronco around...and not beign able to install my Flowmaster... GRRRR(pissed)


aMaff said:
I don't think what you're getting now is lash, it's just vibrations from the motor being transmitted into the cabin through the MUCH stiffer mounts.
Click to expand...
 
I launch at 1k rpms no issue, I dunno.. I even have a completely torn passenger side mount right now. The only one I have upgraded currently is an SLS front mount (75 durometer)
 
The Proteges did have a clutch chatter issue. It was worse when the weather or car was cold. I think there was a TSB about it.
 
xelderx said:
The Proteges did have a clutch chatter issue. It was worse when the weather or car was cold. I think there was a TSB about it.
Click to expand...
Werd to that, mine is perty bad but ive learned to work the pedal around it. Where can one find this tsb abou the chatter issue?

Sounds to me like you have a poor running engine and its causeing miss fire issues down low, thus banging that motor around alot.
 
ho bag said:
Werd to that, mine is perty bad but ive learned to work the pedal around it. Where can one find this tsb abou the chatter issue?

Sounds to me like you have a poor running engine and its causeing miss fire issues down low, thus banging that motor around alot.
Click to expand...


glad to say i have no issues with a misfire situation. The idle is low and even...doesn't waver from 700 rpm except when the fan turns on.

I'll look into the chatter issue, although I would think it'd make noise if it were that...

It has been colder 'round here than usual but the car does it even when operating at optimal temps...

I was looking into the FSM and according to it, the front mount is supposed tohave some sort of attachment to it, which mine does not possess...I wonder why...?

Can anyone confirm that the fron mount has an attachment to it?
 
Can you take a pic of the front mount? I'm not sure I know what attachment you're talking about.
 
My slipping clutch sounds and feels similar to engine bucking. If you still get engine bucking with AWR mounts then you probably are driving the hell out of the car. Do you do burn outs or similar hoonish activities? This would def cause clutch problems in a hurry which may appear to you to be engine bucking.

Mind, I'm not accusing you, just trying to get to the bottom of your issue. Urathane mounts don't leave much room for engine movement which is why I suggest you look elsewhere.
 
aMaff said:
I did not know that. would that work on a manual P5?
Click to expand...

there's a thread in the how-to section by theMan (it was bumped I think earlier today so it should be near the top) about the conversion. You have to get a new front-rear crossmember (one for the autotragic) because our's don't have the stud that you need for mounting the roll damper.
 
NVP5White said:
My slipping clutch sounds and feels similar to engine bucking. If you still get engine bucking with AWR mounts then you probably are driving the hell out of the car. Do you do burn outs or similar hoonish activities? This would def cause clutch problems in a hurry which may appear to you to be engine bucking.

Mind, I'm not accusing you, just trying to get to the bottom of your issue. Urathane mounts don't leave much room for engine movement which is why I suggest you look elsewhere.
Click to expand...


Not quite...like I said...the bucking becomes apparent when I try to drive away slowly...between the 1000 and 1500 RPM range...

I don't get noise from the bucking, just the vibration inside the cabin fromthe stiffer mounts. I'm wondering if one of the mounts is not positioned properly...although it is very unlikely...

If I take off at higher RPMS (2000 and higher) it won't do it. I haven't raced (AutoX) my car this year... and won't until I can get this resolved.

I was looking at the Roll Damper...exactly. Didn't know that only the autos were supposed to have one. I'll look into it and try to take a photo. I drive a MTX, btw.

I too will look into that thread... and I'll try and post pics of the mounts soon.
 
P5inder said:
Not quite...like I said...the bucking becomes apparent when I try to drive away slowly...between the 1000 and 1500 RPM range...

I don't get noise from the bucking, just the vibration inside the cabin fromthe stiffer mounts. I'm wondering if one of the mounts is not positioned properly...although it is very unlikely...

If I take off at higher RPMS (2000 and higher) it won't do it.
Click to expand...
Does the problem get better as the car warms up? Does the problem happen in warm weather?

I ask because my clutch only chatters when its cold.

Also, the engine rocks because energy is stored through the flexing of the engine mount and then released suddenly. This can happen when the wheel loses traction, a phenomenon primarily called wheel hop. This can also happen at the other end of the driveline, when your clutch loses traction due to cold clutch chatter. In both cases, there is a grip then a loss of grip which causes the sudden "springing" back of the engine within the range of movement allowed by the mount.

Poly mounts help because they move less and store less energy reducing the tendency for the engine to rock. Engine dampers also reduce the tendency of the engine to rock by absorbing some of the spring-back energy. Typically either reducing the amount of movement OR using a damper will be sufficient, but not both. If the engine isn't moving [a lot] then there really is not need for the damper. Also, the damper will not help with high frequency vibration, but only with [relatively] low frequency rocking of bucking.
 
NVP5White said:
Does the problem get better as the car warms up? Does the problem happen in warm weather?

I ask because my clutch only chatters when its cold.

Also, the engine rocks because energy is stored through the flexing of the engine mount and then released suddenly. This can happen when the wheel loses traction, a phenomenon primarily called wheel hop. This can also happen at the other end of the driveline, when your clutch loses traction due to cold clutch chatter. In both cases, there is a grip then a loss of grip which causes the sudden "springing" back of the engine within the range of movement allowed by the mount.

Poly mounts help because they move less and store less energy reducing the tendency for the engine to rock. Engine dampers also reduce the tendency of the engine to rock by absorbing some of the spring-back energy. Typically either reducing the amount of movement OR using a damper will be sufficient, but not both. If the engine isn't moving [a lot] then there really is not need for the damper. Also, the damper will not help with high frequency vibration, but only with [relatively] low frequency rocking of bucking.
Click to expand...

No, it actually gets worse when the car warms up...hence my thought that it might be an engine mount...still.

I looked at the mounts and the rear looks kinda funny to me...there is a rubber isolator on one end of the bolt that holds the engine to the mount itself and it doesn't seem to be sitting flush with the mount. Additionally, because it isn't siting flush, the bolt is probably not as tight as it could be.

I'll have to check into that...and other things... I've takne photos of each mount and will post them tomorrow, hopefully this will afford some answers...

Thanks for your help thus far...I'm thinking of finding the TSB for the clutch chatter and taking it to the stealership to see if they can ascertain where the bucking is coming from. Or maybe I'll just take it to another mechanic.
 
To me it sounds like you are 'lugging' it.

I keep my RPMs at NLT 2K (unless idling - of course).
I don't change gears until 3K at least...

Lugging your engine does damage too. It stresses the connecting rods and crank.
 
3rd gen proteges do have drivetrain lash, I can definitely confirm that.
 
Please log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

C
Help! Trying to turbo my Protege5
Replies
1
Views
668
jadycr
jadycr
T
  • Question
2002 Protege5 Transmission problems
Replies
3
Views
2K
TX_SilverP5
T
S
Protege5 Motor Mounts - Time to do them
Replies
15
Views
5K
smetzger
S

Latest posts

Back