Cobb AP whats the deal?

[oaklandopen]

But the tuning is different between the 2 companies. Ht essentially calibrates the maf if you have a different intake, and leaves the safety aspects unchanged. It doesn't increase the boost as much as cobb does, I don't believe

And I think there have been more boom scenarios with the cobb than there have been with the ht

The explaination of how the ht works was extremely thorough, as was their testing

I think the fact that you CAN'T do any additional tuning/tweaking with the ht makes it the better choice for most consumers

 

[zoom-zoom-boom]

Do the base maps in to AP overwork the turbo? I'm probably only going to have the intake and inlet. Is there anything I should worry about?

I've seen compressor maps for our turbos and it looks like 19 psi is A LOT of boost for these things. Is it safe?

 

[oaklandopen]

Safe boost is a relative term. You could have an engine built to handle 600hp, but if your pushing 300hp with an unsafe afr you won't last long. On the other hand, you could have an engine built to handle 300hp, and run 300hp in it for a long time as long as the afr is good

Ppl have had boost creep issues with this engine due to the wastegate not handling the boost levels that some tunes try to get to. So overboosting is going to create a major problem if its not leveled out by more fuel

The ht keeps stock boost, and allows for less "tapering" effect. Meaning the difference between spikes and maintained levels. I can't say for sure, but the ht keeps those within a couple psi while the cobb can allow like 21psi back down to 16

And once you start tuning things out like cold weather boost cut, or generally increasing boost levels dramatically, potential problems arise

 

[Domino81]

i was a long time ago, i still have an account i think. i used to know ben spada and his sister.

Spadaben! I know them, partied with them many a time.

 

[MSMS3]

HT does raise boost to target in the 18-19 psi range with a nice taper to 16 psi at 6,000 rpm and then a slow taper after that, so you do not fall flat on your face after 6,000 like on stock tune. It also eliminates (selectively) the power restriction of the stock ECU in first and second gear. It also raises the load tables safely so that you can avoid the stock sharp load cut at the higher target boost levels of HT. It does all of this safely, maintaining safe AFR's and timing advance curve. As previously stated, it also is very smooth in operation.

It is very mod friendly, including with my catless 3 inch dp/rp. As pointed out it does have accurate MAF correction for most of the popular intakes.

It also stopped my boost spiking to 21 psi which I was getting with these mods on stock tune.

Is it as absolutely able to maximize power as the AP? No. Will it get you to the maximum SAFE and SMOOTH power on the stock turbo. Yes, or very close to it.

I'm not suggesting that AP is not good. It is. It is very good, even superior, in the hands of someone who knows how to tune safely. It can get you in a lot of trouble that HT will not, if you do not know what you are doing or if you think you do and push the envelope.

On the K04 it's not exactly how much absolute boost you can run, it's the compressor map. You can run 20 psi at 4,000 rpm, for instance, very safely if all other tuning paramaters are safe. You cannot run 20 psi (at least not very long) at 6,000 rpm.

BTW: There is no tune on the market that will make a wastegate flow better. It's maximum flow rate is purely mechanical, based on the size of its port and flapper valve. When that rate is exceeded, the turbo is going to boost creep and overboost, because the excess boost that cannot flow through the exhaust will overspin the turbo. All any tune can do is adjust boost to keep flow through below the wastegate's maximum, and that's going to be the same whether you are running AP, Standback or Hypertech.

 

[oaklandopen]

I was wondering when you were gonna drop in on this thread, msms3

 

[8.5MS3]

And I think there have been more boom scenarios with the cobb than there have been with the ht

statistically, any tuning device on the market that has been around since the infancy of this engine will have more failures than something that has been out for what 6 months? The ability to self tune with the ap allows users to dail in the tunes as they desire. but the "AT YOUR OWN RISK" factor automatically applies. if you are not capable of properly tuning, get it professionally tuned. companies cannot be held responsible for the lack of common sense of the consumer. if they did, we'd all be driving cars made of NERF and 50cc engines....

I'm not suggesting that AP is not good. It is. It is very good, even superior, in the hands of someone who knows how to tune safely. It can get you in a lot of trouble that HT will not, if you do not know what you are doing or if you think you do and push the envelope.

On the K04 it's not exactly how much absolute boost you can run, it's the compressor map. You can run 20 psi at 4,000 rpm, for instance, very safely if all other tuning paramaters are safe. You cannot run 20 psi (at least not very long) at 6,000 rpm.

^^what he said

and my first turbo was shot after 20k miles.....24psi @ redline with a bad tune ftl

 

[zoom-zoom-boom]

Well that's scary, I really don't like boost creep, it's a nightmare to tune right. Just talked to chris at Cobb. And he says that boost should spike to 19ish at around 3500-4000 and taper off to 16 at 6000. Now that stays in the 60-70% efficiency level, when I do this I'm going to datalog my a/r and boost to make sure everything is where it's supposed to be. I'll probably have kr fuel pressure and LTFT. In there too. I'll post my findings in here if you guys want. I relly wish it wasn't such an aggressive tune so I wouldednt need to freak out about it.

And I do like the HT tune. I thinks it's a great alternative. It was a hard choice to pick between the two but ultamitly the ability to make little corrections with the AP won me over.

 

[oaklandopen]

Just be careful making those little corrections yourself

 

[MSMS3]

I was wondering when you were gonna drop in on this thread, msms3

LOL! I realize OP went with AP and it's a good choice if he is careful.

I just wanted to make clear that you can get damn close to optimal AP tuning without running the risks. HT took a lot of R&D time. Yes, they came to the game late, but their product has been out there for over a year now and we just are not seeing the blown engines. If they do start showing up, chances are that the user tried to self tune by running the MAF corrections for the incorrect intake trying to lean it out some more and squeeze a little more power out at the expense of safety.

If users are given the opprotunity to "Eff" up something, there will always be some that will succeed.

 

[8.5MS3]

just an fyi

you can download ATR and see the actual differences between the OEM ECU mapping and the different OTS maps in the AP to truly see how "aggressive" they are

stage 1's are actually pretty mild
stage 2 is where you start to really get aggressive with timing

and my tuner was able to completely eliminate boost spiking. targeting peak boost after 4k and about 3psi less prior allows boost to build on a steady curve rather than an abrupt overboost

 

[zoom-zoom-boom]

Spadaben! I know them, partied with them many a time.

Cool!!! How are they? Are they still on PT. Are there any meets in the area comming up?

 

[zoom-zoom-boom]

ok got the AP today, just keeping you guys posted. i just installed it using a stock map, doing some baseline datalogs and playing around with it. so far i like it. whats a good program to use to open datalogs?

nevermind just put office on my computer now i get it. lol

 

[Domino81]

Check MIPOC. No idea.

 

[zoom-zoom-boom]

Ok so I hold like 10 psi in 1st, 12-13 in 2nd, 14 in 3rd, and 15 in 5th and 6th sometimes it falls down to 14 as rpms increase. Spikes to 18 or so. No knock at all and solid fuel pressure.

Should I wait till I get a BPV and inlet or just put the stage one on the car and see how it's running? Where should A/F ratio be with tune? Anything anything else besides the obvious stuff like fuel pressure, boost and knock.

 

[Domino81]

Mine does that, too. After my HT tune.

 

[8.5MS3]

youre on a stock map, the car should behave as if you didnt put anything on it.....oem tune spikes to 17-18. no increase in power until you put a stage map on it.

 

[8.5MS3]

oh and heres a wild idea. read the map notes on cobb's website

Installed Stock Mode v108 - Installed Stock Mode map for an otherwise stock 2007-2009
MAZDASPEED3 vehicles. Uses stock values for conditions when you need the vehicle's
ECU to act like it is still stock. DOES NOT UNINSTALL AP FROM THE ECU.

 

[zoom-zoom-boom]

Yes as I said just doing baseline tests making sure everything is in order. Key word being "stock" I was asking if I should go ahead and put the tune in the car or wait till I get BPV and inlet.

 

[zoom-zoom-boom]

ok so i hold like 10 psi in 1st, 12-13 in 2nd, 14 in 3rd, and 15 in 5th and 6th sometimes it falls down to 14 as rpms increase. Spikes to 18 or so. No knock at all and solid fuel pressure.

Should i wait till i get a bpv and inlet or just put the stage one on the car and see how it's running? Where should a/f ratio be with tune? Anything anything else besides the obvious stuff like fuel pressure, boost and knock.

****