car comparo: GTI, RSX Type-S, Mazdaspeed

[Slipstream]

I too am debating the GTI and MSP. Honestly, I'm leaning toward the GTI for a few reasons. First, utility. Granted, the MSP has 4 doors and fairly comfortable rear seats, but the GTI wins hands down in cargo room. Coming from a Cougar with infinite cargo capacity (I can literally carry everything I own), I don't know if I could handle dropping to a fairly small trunk. I like the extra space, and still carry a lot of stuff.

The second major reason is safety. Granted, the MSP is plenty safe itself in a proactive way (great handling, good brakes, etc), the VW is a literal TANK. Front, side, and curtain airbags standard, as are the ABS. I'm going to be starting a family in the near future, and that's something I need to think about.

Now, don't take this post as a "I don't like MSPs" type of thing. I STILL go back and forth on a weekly basis on which car I think I'm going to buy when the time comes (3-4 months). The "s***-eating grin" factor of the MSP nearly cancels out the safety and cargo benefits the GTI has.

 

[arkitek]

I had the exact dilema when I was searching for a new car.

The formula I used to decide was to look at each car and worked out the final cost of what I needed to do to get the car to the final state that I would be happy with in the end. The MSP was the cheapest of the bunch by a long shot. Here are my reasons for the MSP

- Feel - hard to describe but this car gave me goose bumps when I first drove it. Handling is very responsive, direct, and neutral. Take a few corners hard and you'll understand. GTI felt just horrible. RSX was nice but the suspension was too soft.
- Has most of the goodies I'm looking for. Nice stereo, LSD, 17" rims/summer tires, sport suspension, decent torque. GTI needs major suspension overhaul, better tires, fat rear sway bar, stereo. RSX needs some suspension tuning, better tires, stereo, more lowend torque, and worse it's 4 grand more expensive.
- Out handles this group by a long shot with no added cost for mods. Tried out both the GTI and RSX. My friend's chipped GTI can't keep up with me at all through this little street course we know of. The LSD made a huge difference. Straightline, the GTI is faster but that didn't help it much.

Overall, the MSP is just a very well balanced car in terms of cost/performance/luxury/functionality.

 

[Dexter]

i feel the MSP is very, very safe

 

[nattyboy513]

the only car that i would trade my mazdaspeed for is an rx-8, an s2000, a nissan 350z or a skyline gtr34 v-spec II. i love my mazdaspeed

 

[1sty]

i feel the MSP is very, very safe

Experience is a b****, huh?

 

[1sty]

the only car that i would trade my mazdaspeed for is an rx-8, an s2000, a nissan 350z or a skyline gtr34 v-spec II. i love my mazdaspeed

Or a
Vette
G35
M3
M5
330xi
328
A4 2.8
S4
RS6
STI
Evo
should I keep going

 

[Dexter]

Experience is a b****, huh?

yup, but now i get bragging rights.

 

[sleeper_]

hehe. great input guys.. however.. i found out that the 337 is quite the possibility now..
it's a 2002 model... and it's still available... msrp with everything is ~34,500 (Canadian) where the type-s is $32,500 (Canadian)... so.. i'm figuring.. i'll be able to get the 337 at the same... or below the cost of an type-s.... i think that sealed the deal for me now.. i'll have to inquire in a week or two i guess..

btw, blown, does the 37,500 include the gst?? if it does then... definitely gotta tell my friend to go down there. lol.. thanks for the info.

 

[1sty]

But no keys!

 

[Daemos]

GTI:

The GTI's Chassis is a great one to work with. For that car you pay more for luxury than performance.

But the car is pretty easy to get alot of power out of, and you can make it handle really well too. But has a lack of an LSD

But it is a strong proven engine, aftermarket galore, and you can probally make this the fastest and best handling car of the 3.

Probally the most luxurious of the 3.

-----------------------
RSX-S

The RSX-S can be made fast easily as well, and we all know you can make the car handle, Has Lack of an LSD.

It has probally the slickest transmission of the 3, the 6 speed in the RSX-S is so smooth, and nice.

But ECU, intake Exhaust, and you'll be going faster than S2000s, and with proper springs and shocks, you'll be going fast as well...

The RSX-S probally also has the largest aftermarket of all 3 cars.
But it's the only car without FI, and it's engine isn't very well tuned to FI...but it's a honda...it has an endless aftermarket. But unless if you go FI...the power won't match a GTi...of you mod.

------------
MSP:

Probally the LEAST refined car of the 3 (by refined, I mean luxary stuff, leather, cruise control, sunroof, creature conforts, automatic climate control)

It is probally the best handling of the bunch, but what it has against it...is that you can make any car handle good.

It's basically just a turbo bolted onto a stock protege engine...so it's strengh is unproven.

Probally has the smallest aftermarket of the 3. But it is a limited production car, probally also the cheapest.
---------------------------

If you're looking to stay stock...the MSP would be the best choice...

If you're looking to mod alot, the RSX-S or the GTI would be better. If you want to mod alot alot, and want all the luxury I'd go with the GTi...

 

[Daemos]

hehe. great input guys.. however.. i found out that the 337 is quite the possibility now..
it's a 2002 model... and it's still available... msrp with everything is ~34,500 (Canadian) where the type-s is $32,500 (Canadian)... so.. i'm figuring.. i'll be able to get the 337 at the same... or below the cost of an type-s.... i think that sealed the deal for me now.. i'll have to inquire in a week or two i guess..

btw, blown, does the 37,500 include the gst?? if it does then... definitely gotta tell my friend to go down there. lol.. thanks for the info.

Where did you find a 337...damn that car is NICE.....cept it doesn't have a sunroof...but if I remember it DOES have automatic climate control...

I'd go for the 337...I'm sorry the MSP has nothing on the 337...maybe cept for handling...but the 337 has a larger aftermarket that can solve that...and a proven engine...also limited production, but has a nicer tranny...and more luxury...

I'd give up the sunroof from the GTi for the 337's six speed, and ricaro seats (REAL bolstered seats, unlike the MSP's sparco)

 

[Dexter]

msp doesnt have sparco seats

 

[MSP Pro]

Sleeper: I noticed you mentioned lsd as one of your talking points. Why do you even care about an lsd?

If your answer is that you're thinking of autox competition, then the answer is get the MSP. No question about it, the MSP will outperform any of the others at autox.

If you aren't going to autox your car, then just go test drive them all. You'll know much more about how you feel about them just by doing that. Then, go buy the one you want. After all, it's your money and it's your choice.

Good luck!

 

[scott42]

GTI easy call.
coil pack, and window regulators are easy fixes for them at this point and they are extremely willing to help you out and fix it (cough cough; unlike Mazda with the bushings problems on the MSP/MP3; cough cough)[am i bitter...naaa]
Engine rocks w/ little work- chip, exhaust, intake...boom 200+hp
Suspension is easy upgrade as well...again w/ a 337 done...go with the 337- if you can wait, and afford it, get an R32
good luck

 

[dub-dude]

funny. is there anybody here that knows that the Volkswagen GTi comes with two engine choices? yes indeed! first and most famous the 1.8Turbo with 180hp, second a 2.8L VR6 with 201hp and oh my god- a six speed transmission. yes it has a soft suspention but what do you expect from a German car made to haul ass down the Autobahn? a problem that can be easily fixed. also the VR6 has a nice torquey pul through all the gears but is not cheaply modifyable unlike the 1.8T which has an endless list of modifications. in the end it's up to the driver and what their going to be doing with the car- any car.

 

[psifactor]

I would consider a wrx. Does anybody have any reliability/opinions on this?

The wrx is a great car all around except in one spot..and thats the tranny. If you want the car to race it, be sure to figure in the cost of a race prep tranny. I would go WRX all the way. Who cars if I have to pay a little more to Get a GREAT car. I rather pay a little more and get something that I know is 100% a car that I want.

 

[scapamouche]

My views as a dedicated autoxer, if it helps:

WRX:
Understeers stock, good power but heavy. With funds can be a VERY good car. Tranny issues (if you USE the FREE SCCA membership included, and have a tranny problem, SOA has been a real B!@TCH about warranty coverage, whether the autox covered it or not.

GTI:
Great engine, but you can't do the big power mods without being put in a ridiculous class (you DON'T have a chance in SM, sorry) The suspension SUCKS!!! It takes TONS of money to even START overcoming the weight and soft suspension issues.

RSX-S:
Understeers like a pig stock, but can be made VERY good. Rear swaybar, springs and the proper shocks and this is a GREAT STS car. Still a bit heavy, though, considering the torque and tires. The peaky powertrain (80% from 2k rpm or not) makes this a difficult car to drive at autox. A BASE model may actually be better for STS!!!!!

MSP:
WONDERFUL handling, and enough power. The complete LACK of camber is a BIG PROBLEM!!!!! I am at the point now where I have to decide what to do about it.... The MSP has undoubtedly the BEST setup to run in STOCK class (DS with the SCCA, BTW) but the camber.... It is also hard to fit a 225mm wide wheel, and the requirement to run 17x7 wheels with 55mm offset is a problem too. I could only find ONE wheel at Tire Rack that would be legal.

I would add one more car, too: Celica GT-S:
Very similar to the RSX with better handling stock, and less weight. The engine is EVEN MORE peaky, though. The base RSX MAY be faster than the S, the Celica GT is DEFINITELY faster than the GT-S. With the right mods (especially the rear swaybar) the Celica has FANTASTIC handling. I drove mine at Laguna Seca before I got rid of it, and the ONLY car that could stick with me in my group was a 350Z. I was outrunning Corvettes, Porsches, Camaros and Mustangs. The same held at Buttonwillow Raceway last year... Only an NSX could stick with me, and that was because of the straights: in the corners I left him behind...

My view, with autox capability in mind: MSP, Celica, RSX, WRX, GTI

 

[1sty]

scapamouche

HOLY GREAT POST.

Nice work my friend.

 

[Daemos]

I'd still probally go for the 337. That car is just too sweet man, even more limited than the MSP, power it's got more, luxury it's got more, price...yea more there too...aftermarket ditto.

I'm guessing there are reasons why you are choosing a FWD car for the price. I'll just list my ranking for the cars I've driven when I was looking for a car.

For Handling I'll list them by order (from my test drives) Please note I haven't driven a 337...but I expect it to be quite well, nor have I've driven an MSP...but I HAVE driven a MP3 which I expect the MSP to handle just as well.

Handling:

1. MSP
2. Spec V
3. Celica GTS
4. The New Tibby
5. RSX
6. GTi

Speed (acceleration wise) (I never drove a MSP, so I won't list it)
1. GTi felt the fastest out of all of them...
2. Celica/RSX
3. Spec V
4. Tibby

Ride: (again I'm assuming the MSP is similar to the Mp3 suspension wise)
1. GTi
2. Celica
3. MSP/RSX
4. Tibby
5. Spec V

Aftermarket:
1. RSX (duh, it's a honda)
2. GTi
3. Celica
4. Spec V/Tibby
5. MSP

Luxury:
1. GTi
2. RSX
3. Celica/Tibby
4. Spec V
5. MSP

Price:
1. RSX/Celica
2. GTi
3. Tibby
4. MSP
5. Spec V

I had some times from some crazy Autocrossing Competition with professional Drivers Stock Class (all cept all cars were equiped with lightweight 17" rims and R compound tires, from what I remember).

But I remember the times in order being.

1. Spec V
2. Integra Type R
3. Spec V

The Mp3 was there...but I believe it was lagging behind ALOT in the straights.

But yea...for now...It seems clear for FWD cars...for handling the best for autoxing would be either a MSP, Spec V, or ITR.

But I'd also like to mention...it's ALOT cheaper to modify a car to handle REALLY well, compared to a car that produces alot and alot of power.

I personally think if you can get the 337...go for it...a WRX would be nice..but I haven't heard too many good things about the tranny...

the 337...has tons of aftermarket..there is probally an aftermarket LSD, and if I remember, just chipping the car adds what 30-40whp from like a 300 dollar chip? That's cheap...and stock GTis can take up to 20 psi of boost on stock internals...impressive.

If you plan to stay stock...from your choices above...I'd probally go with the MSP...just because the luxury isn't worth the performance I'm losing...and the PRICE is a huge thing...

If I planned to mod at all...it would be either the RSX-S or the 337.

Then if I wanted to make a crazy handling and powerful car...that is rare...it's the 337...

There was a Crazy VW GTi the RS6 I believe...not too sure if it's comming here or not...but maybe you could use that to debate to get the price down...or maybe just wait for that...but I'm pretty sure you don't wanna wait anymore.

 

[sleeper_]

yeah.. that's what i figured from bringing the gti or 337 into the mix.. the gti didn't quite have what i was looking for.. but the 337 definitely makes up my mind.. it's just a matter of selling my car for a decent price vs what the dealer offered and gettin the 337 at that point. =)... oh and from what i've seen. the 337 looks better than the 20th AE (ie. the wheels)
the 337 has the 6speed i'm looking for.. and the performance and interior and eventually can be made to handle well whereas with the msp, i'll be stuck with the interior (not to say it's bad, but is inferior to the 337)

yes yes. i KNOW it's more $ too.. but it's worth the price imo.. wrx indeed is out of reach.. nor would i want it b/c i don't like the interior all that much.. although the awd and power would be great too.. hehe.. i want more style anyways.. hehe