2013 Mazda5 turbocharger installation

[sac02]

Brief update:

It was a long-awaited day when DT decided he was happy with the MAF and MAP calibrations and gave me the OK to start adding boost. Went through a couple quick iterations of adding a bit of boost, then confirming everything OK (AFRs, KR, fuel, etc.). Currently sitting at the limit of the stock fuel injector duty cycle at ~4psi, waiting for a new file before installing the larger injectors.

4psi is neat, 10psi will be real fun.

And I have to take a moment to gloat - I feel like all the work I did from researching turbos and compressor maps and agonizing over which turbo, and spending more for smaller IC piping (instead of the de-facto 2.5" or 3"), and spending hours getting the piping and wiring correct - it has all been worth it to do this correctly. I have not had a single issue that I hear about with EVERY other DIY turbo install - no water leaks, no oil leaks, no boost leaks, no rattles from loose intercoolers or pipes, no wiring issues, no heat issues, no nothing.

It just runs and drives like an OEM install (and the throttle response is excellent, the turbo appears perfectly sized) - which was exactly the goal going into this project.

 

[Secondtyme]

Bravo sir! I think you have earned the right to gloat (a little) please keep the updates coming for the rest of us living vicariously. And a little video would be nice if you get the chance

 

[d-machine]

Very nice!

 

[sac02]

On a pallet and on its way to me...

 

[loosenut]

On a pallet and on its way to me...

So I feel the need to ask, why the change to the speed3 trans? I have not seen an issue arise with the stock 6 speed trans. Better gear ratios maybe? Don't get me wrong the speed3 trans is pretty stout but is known for some synchro issues. Plus it's a b**** to install if you don't drop the whole subframe out of the way.

 

[sac02]

...why the change to the speed3 trans? ...

Two wheel drive.

 

[loosenut]

Doh, LSD ftw. Nice. Hope everything else with the new setup is going well.

 

[sac02]

Slowly, but well.

 

[Meisenman]

Two wheel drive.

Please excuse my ignorance, but what do you mean? We're all two-wheel drive.

 

[Davicho]

Please excuse my ignorance, but what do you mean? We're all two-wheel drive.

No we have a one wheel drive FWD vehicle because our transmissions don't have limited slip differential (LSD) the MS3 transmission has an LSD making it a true 2WD FWD set up.

 

[sac02]

Meisenman, Davicho is correct. The design of an open differential is such that when one wheel begins to slip, 100% of the engine's torque is directed to that wheel - the wheel with no traction. With an open diff, you only have as much traction as the wheel with the least traction. Hence "one wheel drive".

There are many different types of mechanical limited slip diffs, but the concept is the same - when one wheel starts to slip, the diff is capable of sending at least some portion of the engine torque to the wheel that still has traction. LSD is preferable for performance compared to open diffs, but it is more costly, so OEMs do not fit it to cars 100% (usually only to sports cars, and perhaps the "sport" variation of "regular" cars).

The cheaper solution that has become popular recently is the "e-diff" which is an electronic system that activates the braking system to simulate (replicate?) the effect of a mechanical LSD. As mentioned previously, when a wheel starts to spin it receives 100% engine torque through the open diff. The e-diff system then brakes that wheel and now it has (simulated) "traction", and some percentage of engine torque can now be sent to the wheel that ACTUALLY has REAL traction. E-diffs are cheaper than mechanical LSD, but they work the braking system, and sometimes overwork the braking system when tracking the car and really using the e-diff at a high "duty cycle", so to speak. E-diffs are capable of some really cool torque vectoring effects though. Watch a FocusST go through an auto-x course and get power oversteer from a FWD car.

Then there are lockers and welded diffs where both tires turn at the same rate and share torque 50/50 at ALL times. Can be good for off-road driving and drifting, but very bad for street driving manners, as the car is very difficult to turn (because the wheels on the L & R physically CANNOT turn at different speeds, which is required (by physics, that pesky thing) to go around a corner).

 

[bubuski]

Wow, where did this thread come from? I've just read pg 1 and 2. Still at work, lots of questions but I'll hold back till I'm done reading it later tonight.

Good job so far

 

[Meisenman]

Thx, guys. I'm familiar with the concept, but I've not heard it referred to as one-wheel/two-wheel drive (as opposed to four-wheel drive). I could never understand how turning one wheel forward caused the other wheel to spin backward, until someone explained it to me in a way that finally made it click.

Reminds me of the movie "My Cousin Vinny" ("What's a yout'?"), in which the photographic evidence shows a two-wheel burnout, but the defendant's car wasn't capable of that, so he was vindicated.

 

[rodslinger]

On a pallet and on its way to me...

Sweet. I was always wondering how easy a swap it was for the 2012+ guys that already have the 6-speed versus the 2010 and older using the 5-speed. We know those are a PIA from seeing the 3 guys try it. Is this generally a direct swap except for a slightly different axle? Cables line up, mounts, etc all similar?

Good luck and have fun.

 

[sac02]

Honestly, I don't know how difficult it's going to be. I was trying to get info regarding the swap (into a 5, or 3, or anything), but was finding very little. So you say the ms3-trans-into-mz3 is reportedly a PITA? I would really like to know what you have heard about the difficulties.

From looking at ms3's locally, it looks like the shift selector is in a different location - but it appears that the ms3 location would actually be better, as the shift cable routing and attachment points on my vehicle are closer to the turbo than would be ideal on my vehicle.

I got:
Transmission, recently rebuilt and driven 1000miles (to confirm everything functioning properly)
Axles
Cables
Shift linkage (may or may not need it, probably not, but better to have it and not need it, rather than the other way around)
Cobb shift weight

...for $500+shipping. At that price I think can easily resell for no loss if the install does turn out to be near-impossible (like, different bolt pattern on the engine & trans kind of issues). If I have to fabricate a new mount - no big deal, IMO. I've kind of accepted that I'll be the guinea pig for this.

 

[Silentnoise713]

Cool stuff Sac. Good luck with the conversion (can I call it a conversion since you are going from a 6sp to a 6sp). Maybe your can do a frankenbuild? Jealous you have the time for this stuff. Look forward to outcome.

 

[sac02]

"Free time"? What's that?

 

[loosenut]

I'll take a stab at this. Everything should physically fit and work. The trans mount will be needed from the ms3 (looks like that may have been included in your pic), your existing rmm may be able to reused. Both axles may be necessary, as they were required in conversions on mz3's before. Ive read on other forums that one bellhousing bolt may not line up with the oil pan but that may not be accurate to the 2.5l oil pan due to a design change. The there is a thread on mazdatroisforum (you know the one) about this conversion on older 3's but some of it will not be the same due to some design changes. The biggest battle your going to have is physically putting the trans into place. It is a very tight squeeze compared to the more compact 6 speed in your 5. The old trans will come out without having to remove the sub frame but the ms3 trans will be much easier to put in with the frame out of the way. Good luck, I think you'll be successful with the swap.
Edit: you'll obviously need an ms3 flyweel and clutch. Forgot that.

 

[d-machine]

wow... this build just keeps getting better

 

[sac02]

Thanks for the info loosenut. I'm not too scared about getting the trans in place (famous last words), since we know it fits in the identically shaped ms3. But it helps to know that I should expect it to be tight, just the fact of being prepared for issues like that makes a huge difference mentally, instead of being surprised by them. Getting it in will just take time, patience, and it helps to have the right tools. Maybe this will be a good excuse to buy that transmission jack...

Right now my questions that I'm stewing over are:
1. Will the ms3 axles fit with no issues (hub side)? If not, can I make a hybrid axle from mz5 tuilip and ms3 tripod?
2. What clutch/flywheel combo should I buy?