Protege5 / Mazda6 Brake swap problem

J

Justin2129

Member
:
2002 Mazda Protege 5
I've been working on getting the mazda 6 brakes (all 4 corners) on my p5. After the 1st time we bled the brakes, the pedal seemed firm, but when I started the car and backed out of the garage, the pedal went soft. Since then we have bled the brakes 4 more times. The 1st 3 times we did it the normal way (pump the brakes, break the bleeder, let the fluid come out, tighten the bleeder). The 4th and 5th time we pumped fluid in through the caliper, since it's easier for bubbles to rise. we pushed fluid through all 4 calipers until there were no more bubbles coming out of the reservoir. I dont think there is any way there could still be air in the brake lines, yet the pedal is still soft.

Any suggestions?
 
Ive heard of stories and my last P5 was wierd like that. When I checked online I had to bleed the brakes starting with the furthest from the brake cylinder and move in closer. That happend when I replaced my 2 rear calipers.
 
my guess: you still have air in the lines.

i could never get the brakes on my protege to bleed correctly. it was worth it to me to take the car to a shop and pay them the $50 (or wahtever) to bleed them for me. after leaving the shop, they always worked as expected.
 
njaremka said:
my guess: you still have air in the lines.

i could never get the brakes on my protege to bleed correctly. it was worth it to me to take the car to a shop and pay them the $50 (or wahtever) to bleed them for me. after leaving the shop, they always worked as expected.
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might have to do that..the only problem would be getting it to the shop with no brakes lol
we pushed so much fluid through with no bubbles...just cant get my head around it
 
Perhaps the master cylinder is bad? If you let the fluid level drop too low while bleeding, pressing the pedal could then damage the seals.
 
+1 on master cylinder or posssibly brake booster. Also are you sure that the bleeder screws are tightned enough?
 
I'm the helper here. We didn't let the fluid level get down below the low level in the master cylinder. And the master cylinder was good when we started. Not saying that isn't the problem. Just sharing data to try to help resolve it. The tool we used to pump fluid through is really nice. We could see fluid going into the calipers and fluid coming into the master cylinder. We could see there was no air going in or coming out at least. And we used most of a quart of fluid trying to make sure it had good bubble free fluid in it. I'm really baffled and we are both frustrated. Justin is having to drive my minivan and it's hurting his swagger. LOL!
 
neanderpaul said:
I'm the helper here. We didn't let the fluid level get down below the low level in the master cylinder. And the master cylinder was good when we started. Not saying that isn't the problem. Just sharing data to try to help resolve it. The tool we used to pump fluid through is really nice. We could see fluid going into the calipers and fluid coming into the master cylinder. We could see there was no air going in or coming out at least. And we used most of a quart of fluid trying to make sure it had good bubble free fluid in it. I'm really baffled and we are both frustrated. Justin is having to drive my minivan and it's hurting his swagger. LOL!
Click to expand...

If you're sure that you've bled everything properly and there's no air in the lines (not that hard to do) then that further points to a problem with the master cylinder.

And btw when bleeding, the fluid level needs to stay much higher than just below the low level mark. From step 6 of the air bleeding procedure in the service manual (page 04-11-3): "The reservoir should be kept about 3/4 full during bleeding to prevent air from reentering the lines."
 
i'm not convinced its the master cylinder. i've bled brakes on many cars, and never had a problem... except with the protege. limp it to the shop if you have to. even with a little bit of pressure in the lines, the pads will grip j-u-s-t enough to help you stop. and if the ebrake is working like it should, that can help too.
 
I had no problem bleeding mine (twice now). I'll admit that it does take a while to get all the air out, it took probably 10+ bleed cycles on each corner before I was confident that no air was left in the line. However I don't see a need to bring it to a shop, especially since they have a reverse-bleeder tool and it would also be rather unsafe.

A couple questions for Justin:
1) Are you losing brake fluid? Pump the pedal a bunch and check the fluid level.
2) On the second/third/... times you bled them was air still coming out?
 
neanderpaul said:
Justin is having to drive my minivan and it's hurting his swagger. LOL!
Click to expand...

for real!!! haha

CheeseHelmet said:
A couple questions for Justin:
1) Are you losing brake fluid? Pump the pedal a bunch and check the fluid level.
2) On the second/third/... times you bled them was air still coming out?
Click to expand...

not losing brake fluid and the last time we bled them there was no air coming out when we did any of the calipers
 
Last edited:
Can you build up any pressure when pumping the pedal? And if so what happens when you hold that pressure? Does the pedal slowly go down?

I'm putting my money on a bad master cylinder. That or you really suck at bleeding brakes :p
 
CheeseHelmet said:
I'm guessing you damaged the seals while bleeding it, it's not unheard of.

Did you try building up and holding pressure on the pedal?
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when the car is off, you can build up some pressure by pumping the brakes, but when the car is started it goes really soft

is there any way of testing to see if it is the master cylinder?
 
Justin2129 said:
when the car is off, you can build up some pressure by pumping the brakes, but when the car is started it goes really soft
Click to expand...

You can't do any tests of pedal firmness with the car running, the brake booster will make the pedal feel soft. Even after the car is off the pedal will still "feel" soft for 2-3 pumps because the brake booster still has a vacuum built-up inside it.

Justin2129 said:
is there any way of testing to see if it is the master cylinder?
Click to expand...

Yes. With the engine turned off build up pressure on the brake pedal, when it's good and firm press down hard and hold it. If the pedal doesn't start sagging downward then it's probably fine.

Have you actually driven around and tested the brakes?
 
CheeseHelmet said:
You can't do any tests of pedal firmness with the car running, the brake booster will make the pedal feel soft. Even after the car is off the pedal will still "feel" soft for 2-3 pumps because the brake booster still has a vacuum built-up inside it.
Click to expand...

okay..should it be somewhat firm right when it's started though?

CheeseHelmet said:
Yes. With the engine turned off build up pressure on the brake pedal, when it's good and firm press down hard and hold it. If the pedal doesn't start sagging downward then it's probably fine.

Have you actually driven around and tested the brakes?
Click to expand...

I'll try this next. I backed it out of the garage and drove around the yard a little....even at those low speeds it was pretty scary..i had to mash the pedal to get it to stop
 
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