Winter is here...and my cx5 turbo is now a 2.0!

Avoidin Deer

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Central Virginia
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2019 CX-5 Reserve
Perhaps since the CX-5 with Turbo comes in AWD while the Mazda6 does not. The AWD system + cold temps appears to be the common denominator. But wait.....no reports on the CX-9 though.
I don't believe the Mazdaspeed3 is AWD, and there's a thread here just one year after its release speaking of the "well-known cold weather turbo issue." I looked at its Wiki page and saw that Mazda cut back boost in 1st & 2nd gears to limit wheel slip. "The amount of boost reduction is determined by the gear selection and steering angle." Interesting, huh?

I gotta think the "Why not the CX-9?" question can be answered by the driving style of the owners relative to the type of vehicle it is. The CX-5 is a sporty CUV, while the CX-9 is nearer to an SUV bus...although one would think that CX-9 owners would be just as likely to reach for power when they need it and find it missing.

But who knows?
 

sm1ke

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Canada
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'18 CX-9 Signature
I gotta think the "Why not the CX-9?" question can be answered by the driving style of the owners relative to the type of vehicle it is. The CX-5 is a sporty CUV, while the CX-9 is nearer to an SUV bus...although one would think that CX-9 owners would be just as likely to reach for power when they need it and find it missing.

But who knows?
Speaking for myself, the power is there when I need it. When there's snow/ice on the ground, I have all the power I need because I'm not pushing the car as if it were 50F outside.

A lot of the frustration seems to come from the fact that Mazda configured these cars to conform to some standard that they set for pulling power at certain temps, with no actual explanation for why. While this is a non-issue for many drivers, some simply want all of the power even if they can't use it effectively, while others are in locations that experience low temps in short enough bursts that snow and ice are not a concern.
 
Speaking for myself, the power is there when I need it. When there's snow/ice on the ground, I have all the power I need because I'm not pushing the car as if it were 50F outside.

A lot of the frustration seems to come from the fact that Mazda configured these cars to conform to some standard that they set for pulling power at certain temps, with no actual explanation for why. While this is a non-issue for many drivers, some simply want all of the power even if they can't use it effectively, while others are in locations that experience low temps in short enough bursts that snow and ice are not a concern.
Mazda philosophy is to make things intelligent and eliminate the need for multiple drive modes as much as possible. Think about it, only real adjustment a driver can make is transmission logic (Sport mode) or traction control (on/off)

Too bad the (sport) mode doesn't effect boost/throttle/steering responce etc and essentially max out the CX5 turbo potential. Would probably make it less frustrating to you turbo owners if this situation could be avoided.
 
Speaking for myself, the power is there when I need it. When there's snow/ice on the ground, I have all the power I need because I'm not pushing the car as if it were 50F outside.

A lot of the frustration seems to come from the fact that Mazda configured these cars to conform to some standard that they set for pulling power at certain temps, with no actual explanation for why. While this is a non-issue for many drivers, some simply want all of the power even if they can't use it effectively, while others are in locations that experience low temps in short enough bursts that snow and ice are not a concern.
All the power can be effectively used when the temps are ~23*F and below and the roads are dry.
 

Avoidin Deer

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2019 CX-5 Reserve
All the power can be effectively used when the temps are ~23*F and below and the roads are dry.
Conversely, the temps can be above freezing with slick wet roads (with existing rain sensors) and all the power is available.

I gotta lean to the thought that this is a cold air density issue and not a "you'll shoot your eye out" thing; otherwise, the limiter would engage closer to 32°...even higher.
 

sm1ke

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All the power can be effectively used when the temps are ~23*F and below and the roads are dry.
Yeah, that's what I said in the post you quoted.

Conversely, the temps can be above freezing with slick wet roads (with existing rain sensors) and all the power is available.

I gotta lean to the thought that this is a cold air density issue and not a "you'll shoot your eye out" thing; otherwise, the limiter would engage closer to 32°...even higher.
I'm sure the issue is related to a lot of things, but I agree that it's probably there to primarily keep the engine "safe".

Keep in mind that they designed the car with the OEM tires in mind. Those tires might be safe enough to use in wet conditions above freezing, but perform poorly once snow starts to accumulate. Also, most cities and municipalities use some form of snow and ice control when the conditions warrant it. The most common ingredient in control materials is salt, which lowers the freezing point to 20F. On a road with control material applied, you'd essentially be driving on a "wet road" up to 20F, which the OEM tires could theoretically handle. Anyway, that's just my theory on why the trigger is 20F and not 32F.
 

sm1ke

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Perhaps I missed something in the post I quoted.

What I highlighted in your post was that you said some want all the power even if they can’t effectively use it.
Yes, that was meant for those who insist on being able to accelerate from 0-60 in 6.3s in 5F, for example. In a situation where you can maintain traction (clear, dry road on a 40F day), you should have all the power available, but in the lower temps, it's practically guaranteed that you won't have that same level of traction. So even if you had all of the power, you'd just be spinning your wheels.
 
Yes, that was meant for those who insist on being able to accelerate from 0-60 in 6.3s in 5F, for example. In a situation where you can maintain traction (clear, dry road on a 40F day), you should have all the power available, but in the lower temps, it's practically guaranteed that you won't have that same level of traction. So even if you had all of the power, you'd just be spinning your wheels.
But the Cx5 has AWD, so you wouldn’t just be spinning your wheels because it’s that cold. Sure there would be some more initial front wheel spin off the line, but it would still hook up even if all the power was being delivered.
 
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2014 Ford Explorer Sport, 2009 CX9(Wife's)
But the Cx5 has AWD, so you wouldn’t just be spinning your wheels because it’s that cold. Sure there would be some more initial front wheel spin off the line, but it would still hook up even if all the power was being delivered.
I'm thinking the same thing.
I don't think AWD, 3800lbs, 310ftlb of torque and automatic is enough to spin all 4 on cold (5F), dry pavement.
 

sm1ke

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But the Cx5 has AWD, so you wouldn’t just be spinning your wheels because it’s that cold. Sure there would be some more initial front wheel spin off the line, but it would still hook up even if all the power was being delivered.
That situation is probably more rare than what commonly happens. Maybe it applies to you because of your climate and road conditions, but in most northern areas this issue doesn't seem to be such a big issue because they aren't driving in a way that they would notice it (because they're driving with snow/ice on the ground). This is also why I used the word some in my statement.

When it's cold enough, the tires lose traction because the rubber gets harder. When it's cold enough, ice can form on the roadway and cause traction issues (this includes ice forming on clear dry roads, and ice forming at temps above freezing). This makes it a lot harder for the tires to "hook up". While the tires are trying to regain traction, the engine could rev high, pulling in the cold, dense air very quickly (which may cause an overboost issue, ultimately what some of us think Mazda is trying to prevent).

I'm thinking Mazda changes the engine tuning at 20F as a preemptive measure to maintain traction and keep the engine safe, while traction control kicks in when you actually do happen to lose traction (accelerating from a stop with a sheet of ice on the road).

If you think differently, that's fine, but this is my opinion based on what info we have right now. At the end of the day we all have are our own theories and can draw our own conclusions.
 
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2014 Ford Explorer Sport, 2009 CX9(Wife's)
Based on my old Speed6 days, I'd say the engine protection is most likely reason.

If I remember right, the stock Speed6 programming would actually start to close the throttle blade when it reached ~5500 rpm. This was, in theory, to protect the engine from making a lot of power at high rpm. Although, you would still see full boost at low/mid rpm.
 
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East Iowa
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'19 CX-5 GT-R
Graphed a log from my OBD during a short drive I took today. Ambient temp was 30 degrees. I'll log my trip into work tomorrow morning when there's no traffic. Temps should be a bit above 20. Thursday morning temps are supposed to be well below 20. We'll see if theres any difference.
Red = Intake temp
Blue = Throttle position
Yellow = Boost
1581470549067.png
 
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CX5 GT-R
Yes, that was meant for those who insist on being able to accelerate from 0-60 in 6.3s in 5F, for example. In a situation where you can maintain traction (clear, dry road on a 40F day), you should have all the power available, but in the lower temps, it's practically guaranteed that you won't have that same level of traction. So even if you had all of the power, you'd just be spinning your wheels.
Is it though? What about gravel at 100*f? What about clean, dry asphalt at-5*f?
 

Avoidin Deer

Zoom Zoom, baby
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Central Virginia
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2019 CX-5 Reserve
Graphed a log from my OBD during a short drive I took today. Ambient temp was 30 degrees. I'll log my trip into work tomorrow morning when there's no traffic. Temps should be a bit above 20. Thursday morning temps are supposed to be well below 20. We'll see if theres any difference.
Red = Intake temp
Blue = Throttle position
Yellow = Boost View attachment 222758
Cool!!!

Whose software are you using?
 
:
East Iowa
:
'19 CX-5 GT-R
Software I'm using is Torque Pro on my Android phone. This is from a stretch of road where speed limit is 70 so I can gun it. Just for reference. Again, Blue is throttle, Red is intake temp. Yellow is boost/vacuum. Max boost was 13.49psi, though graph makes it look higher, not sure why.
1581540358804.png


This is the rest of the drive to work this morning. Punched it here and there.
1581540872161.png

And finally my drive home, just driving regularly.
1581540910667.png


I can graph just areas around acceleration if needed. And there also all kinds of other sensors, but it can throw the scale off and I'm not good enough with spreadsheets to know how to do that, lol. Like if I put RPM on there, the others all just look like straight lines, I don't know how to put just that one column on another scale on the other side of the graph.
 

Avoidin Deer

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Central Virginia
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I have Torque Pro on my tablet, but the number of sensors seemed to be more limited that what you're showing. Did you select Mazda, or some other car so as to get those data points?

ps: Here's how to get that second scale on the Y axis:

  • Start by creating a chart with just one axis.
  • Select the data series you wish to place on a secondary axis, by clicking on the series in the chart.
  • From the Format tab, Current Selection Group, check you have the correct data series selected and then click Format Selection.
  • The Format Data Series dialog box will be displayed.
  • From Series Options category, under Plot Series on, click Secondary Axis radio button and then click Close.
 
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2013 VRM Mazdaspeed3, 2016 Soul Red CX-5 GT
Software I'm using is Torque Pro on my Android phone. This is from a stretch of road where speed limit is 70 so I can gun it. Just for reference. Again, Blue is throttle, Red is intake temp. Yellow is boost/vacuum. Max boost was 13.49psi, though graph makes it look higher, not sure why.

I can graph just areas around acceleration if needed. And there also all kinds of other sensors, but it can throw the scale off and I'm not good enough with spreadsheets to know how to do that, lol. Like if I put RPM on there, the others all just look like straight lines, I don't know how to put just that one column on another scale on the other side of the graph.
I would just log the WOT acceleration runs. Actually, if you can datalog on the same roads at different weather temps, that would very interesting data to look at.

I don't know if it can, but if you can load the logfile data from Torque into Virtual Dyno, then you can even compare the power/torque curves between acceleration runs.
 
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