ATF...Change or not?

[Kedis82ZE8]

I plan to do an external AT cooler like this thread

2019 CX-5 Diesel Aftermarket Transmission Cooler

Good day folks - first post on the forum here, Firstly, the bulk of my reading was done at this thread - Transmission Cooler - Anyone installed one? To avoid resurrecting an almost 6 year old thread, I have decided to start an offshoot to ask my question. I have already asked this on Reddit...

mazdas247.com

 

[sinistriel@]

I plan to do an external AT cooler like this thread

2019 CX-5 Diesel Aftermarket Transmission Cooler

Good day folks - first post on the forum here, Firstly, the bulk of my reading was done at this thread - Transmission Cooler - Anyone installed one? To avoid resurrecting an almost 6 year old thread, I have decided to start an offshoot to ask my question. I have already asked this on Reddit...

mazdas247.com

I'm working on an external cooler as well. In the desert with any sort of spirited driving I'll see close to 230* atf temps. With an upgraded turbo before much longer giving the cooling system some overhead back is the goal there as well as I'll be testing some upgraded clutch disc's that like cooler temps.

 

[HyFlyer]

@sinistriel@ , do you know at what temperature the Mazda transmission would throw a warning? How hot is too hot?

 

[sinistriel@]

@sinistriel@ , do you know at what temperature the Mazda transmission would throw a warning? How hot is too hot?

Unfortunately they have followed what a lot of the industry has moved to and its ~270*f. Over 230* and fluid will start to break down and the static/dynamic coefficient of friction starts to change rapidly.

 

[Conrad 16.5]

I have done it, a couple of times, and yes it's easier than an oil change. If it wasn't, I wouldn't have made the claim.

If you say so. I'll find out for myself next year.

 

[yrwei52]

If you say so. I'll find out for myself next year.

No, it’s definitely more involved on ATF drain-and-fill than a simple oil change. You need to remove the entire engine bottom cover with too many clips and screws, remove the air box or sway it away, attach a capable ATF temperature reader. Not to mention you need to do the drain-and-fill 3 times for ~87.5% ATF change, and one of them may involve the pan dropping for filter cartridge change.

 

[Conrad 16.5]

No, it’s definitely more involved on ATF drain-and-fill than a simple oil change. You need to remove the entire engine bottom cover with too many clips and screws, remove the air box or sway it away, attach a capable ATF temperature reader. Not to mention you need to do the drain-and-fill 3 times for ~87.5% ATF change, and one of them may involve the pan dropping for filter cartridge change.

Yes, I know all that. Doesn't sound easier than an oil change to me either but,

I have done it, a couple of times, and yes it's easier than an oil change. If it wasn't, I wouldn't have made the claim.

If it wasn't, he wouldn't have made the claim.

Right?

 

[theblooms]

I love how people who admit they've only read about the job absolutely, totally, and completely know more about a subject than someone who has actually done it a couple dozen times over several different vehicles over a couple of decades.

I apologize for offering insight gained from actual experience instead of being a forum expert who's only read about it. You're right. You are far better off paying someone $500 to do this, because it's far, far beyond the capabilities of even the most advanced DIY'er.

I am wrong, and really need to heed the old adage: "Tis better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, then open it and remove all doubt."

 

[Yo'sDad]

Quick question only for those of you who have personally done the 'drop the pan' version of an ATF fluid change. I'm looking for actual user info, not speculation or anything else please.
Did you do the gasket approach or the sealer (no gasket) approach. Did you get leaks or 100 percent seal. That is it. If you used sealant, which brand did you use. Thank, Tom

 

[theblooms]

Quick question only for those of you who have personally done the 'drop the pan' version of an ATF fluid change. I'm looking for actual user info, not speculation or anything else please.
Did you do the gasket approach or the sealer (no gasket) approach. Did you get leaks or 100 percent seal. That is it. If you used sealant, which brand did you use. Thank, Tom

I use Wix filters, which includes a gasket. I use the gasket every time, and I've never had a leak.

Wix part number on the filter for my 2013 CX-5 with the 2.0 is WL10379.

 

[Yo'sDad]

I use Wix filters, which includes a gasket. I use the gasket every time, and I've never had a leak.

Thank you, did you put it on dry or add grease or anything else?

 

[theblooms]

Thank you, did you put it on dry or add grease or anything else?

I generally put tiny dabs of Hondabond HT at the corners of the pan, just to hold the gasket in place when I'm reinstalling it. This step absolutely is not required though, it's just for my convenience.

 

[sm1ke]

I love how people who admit they've only read about the job absolutely, totally, and completely know more about a subject than someone who has actually done it a couple dozen times over several different vehicles over a couple of decades.

I apologize for offering insight gained from actual experience instead of being a forum expert who's only read about it. You're right. You are far better off paying someone $500 to do this, because it's far, far beyond the capabilities of even the most advanced DIY'er.

I am wrong, and really need to heed the old adage: "Tis better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, then open it and remove all doubt."

No need for this to be taken any further than a difference in opinion. You think it's easier than an oil change; fair enough. Some of us think differently and that's fine too.

I have done an ATF drain and fill myself, as well as all but one of the oil changes on my CX-9. I think the ATF drain and fill is absolutely more difficult, but not by much. FWIW.

 

[MM8]

I believe it’s about 3.72 ~ 3.75 quarts needed for proper ATF fill. Remember the factory most likely had under-filled the transmission. Here from Kedis82ZE8’s report he needed 3.72 quarts to refill for a simple drain-and-fill, while the first drain from the factory fill is only 3.4 quarts.

Transmission fluid change without filter replacement

I did mine today. 2020 CX-5 Touring, 2.5L NA engine, 50,000 miles.
Drained the pan, dropped the pan, and changed the filter. The filter only held back a cup or so. I let it drip for 3 hours with the pan and filter removed. I have a bi-directional scan tool that gives me the transmission temperature, the transmission took 5 liters /5.25 quarts. I got genuine Mazda fluid in liters from Mazdashop online - they had the best price and it was half what my local dealership in Florida is charging.
A couple of notes: I use to work in a transmission shop, and this Mazda transmission pan and magnet are the cleanest I've ever seen on a first transmission service, like all things mechanical, transmission parts wear in, which leaves debris. - I was pleasantly surprised.
Use red can Brakleen and a wire brush to remove the factory RTV pan sealer - it goes really fast. Get a toothbrush size wire brush and Brakleen to remove the sealer from the bottom of the transmission case. The fluid was very discolored, but not bad. Bad fluid smells like burned popcorn. I will drain the fluid again tomorrow, refill with new, and button up the bottom. I'm expecting the drain and fill I do tomorrow to take about a 1/2 quart less than what the transmission took today.
The WIX filter and gasket I got from Rockauto had a different variation of gasket (similar but 2 holes were about 3/4" off), so I ended up buying RTV from a local auto parts store, I was a bit pissed about that.

*EDIT*EDIT*EDIT* I did a drain and fill today with a 2 hour drain time after driving the car for 30 minutes to heat up the transmission. 3.5 quarts is what it took to refill what I drained out.

If you want to do a "Triple Drain and Fill" without changing the filter, buy 11 quarts of transmission fluid.

 

[MM8]

I use Wix filters, which includes a gasket. I use the gasket every time, and I've never had a leak.

Wix part number on the filter for my 2013 CX-5 with the 2.0 is WL10379.

Used that same filter today on my 2020 2.5L NA Touring.
Two holes on the gasket were about 3/4" off - couldn't use the gasket. That had me a bit pissed. Ended up using $15 tube Permatex from my local parts store - the price of the RTV was nearly as much as the filter and gasket, which had me more pissed.

 

[theblooms]

Used that same filter today on my 2020 2.5L NA Touring.
Two holes on the gasket were about 3/4" off - couldn't use the gasket. That had me a bit pissed. Ended up using $15 tube Permatex from my local parts store - the price of the RTV was nearly as much as the filter and gasket, which had me more pissed.

Damn, that stinks.

 

[Kedis82ZE8]

I use 4 Rhino ramps and have never had to pull the airbox out of the way to change my AT fluid. I just use a long funnel from the top to refill fluid into dipstick fill.

 

[MM8]

I use 4 Rhino ramps and have never had to pull the airbox out of the way to change my AT fluid. I just use a long funnel from the top to refill fluid into dipstick fill.

There is no way I can get a funnel into the dipstick hole with the airbox in place on my 2020. The airbox covers up the dipstick completely.

 

[yrwei52]

I did mine today. 2020 CX-5 Touring, 2.5L NA engine, 50,000 miles.
Drained the pan, dropped the pan, and changed the filter. The filter only held back a cup or so. I let it drip for 3 hours with the pan and filter removed.

Thanks for the detailed report. Were you able to just sway away the whole air filter box with wires connected to check the ATF level with engine running on your 2.5L NA / CD / 2020 CX-5?

I have a bi-directional scan tool that gives me the transmission temperature,

Do you mind to tell us what kind of scan tool (type、brand、model) you’re using?

the transmission took 5 liters /5.25 quarts.

According to 2020 Mazda CX-5 owner’s manual, the ATF capacity on 2.5L NA / CD is 7.8 L / 8.2 US qt OR 8.0 L / 8.5 US qt without any comments. And the 2.5T on the same MY has 8.0 L / 8.5 US qt. The 2.5L NA on my 2016 CX-5 has 7.8 L / 8.2 US qt. Most people reported 1.25 ~ 2 quarts additional ATF are needed for the pan drop with a filter cartridge change.

I got genuine Mazda fluid in liters from Mazdashop online - they had the best price and it was half what my local dealership in Florida is charging.

I noticed that too on the other day. And the price is for 1-liter bottle which is a bit more than US ATF FZ quart bottle. Just hope the shipping from Canada won’t be too expensive.

A couple of notes: I use to work in a transmission shop, and this Mazda transmission pan and magnet are the cleanest I've ever seen on a first transmission service, like all things mechanical, transmission parts wear in, which leaves debris. - I was pleasantly surprised.

Many here felt there’re too much metal shavings and gunk on the magnet even on the pan for the first pan drop. Here’s the report from @Digbicks1234 at 63K miles:

2016.5 CX-5 Transmission fluid change questions

Use red can Brakleen and a wire brush to remove the factory RTV pan sealer - it goes really fast. Get a toothbrush size wire brush and Brakleen to remove the sealer from the bottom of the transmission case. The fluid was very discolored, but not bad. Bad fluid smells like burned popcorn.

Thanks for reporting your experience.

I will drain the fluid again tomorrow, refill with new, and button up the bottom.

Most drive a week or two then do the second ATF change. I guess the ATF should be mixed very well between fresh and old once the engine is running and the transmission had been shifted into every gear.

So far I’ve seen people here doing the pan drop the last during 3 drains-and-fills. You’re the first did the pan drop and filter change the first.

I'm expecting the drain and fill I do tomorrow to take about a 1/2 quart less than what the transmission took today.

Although you said the original filter only held back a cup or so, but the filter element also absorbed plenty of ATF which couldn’t be drained. You should only need about 3.75 quarts to do a simple drain-and-fill, not 5.25 - 0.5 = 4.75 quarts. You may have a transmission with bigger capacity and that’s about 0.3 quart more. Please report back what you found.

The WIX filter and gasket I got from Rockauto had a different variation of gasket (similar but 2 holes were about 3/4" off), so I ended up buying RTV from a local auto parts store, I was a bit pissed about that.

I believe the reason why the pan gasket from WIX WL10379 wouldn’t fit is because your transmission is the newer version with 0.3 quart bigger capacity.

Some would want to buy a new pan for less effort on RTV cleaning job. They also need to watch out making sure to get a correct one as the pan shape and screw hole locations could be different due to the capacity change.

 

[sinistriel@]

Many here felt there’re too much metal shavings and gunk on the magnet even on the pan for the first pan drop. Here’s the report from @Digbicks1234 at 63K miles:

2016.5 CX-5 Transmission fluid change questions

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The concept of "too much debris" varies by transmission family. That magnet is typical of any transmission that uses Exedy multi segment friction. Having multiple segments means great lubrication flow but you make up for it in friction compound to keep strength proportionate. There is a lot of metal in the friction compound. The TCC clutches shed a bit as well and they are relatively large and also a high metal ratio. The shiny stuff in the clutch close up are metallic chunks in the base material. The magnet picture is from the Sky I tore down for one of my videos. Everything was perfect inside the unit except for some hot spotted 3-5-R steels.