CR3 Motorsports
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These will be shipped directly from Signature Products in Indiana.
GB: Signature Products Oil Catch Cans
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CR3 Motorsports
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Bump!
CR3 Motorsports
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=) Here is our new chrome finish. Also the prototype Coolant, PS tanks and ADP.
What all is done when the valve cover is modified to remove the PCV? Are you just threading an AN fitting to where the PCV is to use an external check valve?
It seems like with our boosted MSP's that we really need catch cans on both the vacuum line to the PCV and on the breather tube, since the manifold is going to suck oil out of the valve cover through the PCV under light load, and the valve cover is going to build up pressure and exit out the breather tube during boost since the PCV is closed.
I am starting to see oil in my intercooler pipes, at least more so than I remember when the car was new(er). My VCG is definitely in need of replacement, and I plan on getting to it along with belts and such fairly soon so that probably isn't helping.
I switched to a Millienia PCV years ago as per forum recommendation, but I don't know if it actually helped anything. I still see about the same amount of oil blow by around the PCV valve gasket and oil cap as before I swapped.
I wonder if there is a way to reduce the crankcase pressure so we don't get oil pushing out of our PCV seal, oil cap, and VCG.
It seems like with our boosted MSP's that we really need catch cans on both the vacuum line to the PCV and on the breather tube, since the manifold is going to suck oil out of the valve cover through the PCV under light load, and the valve cover is going to build up pressure and exit out the breather tube during boost since the PCV is closed.
I am starting to see oil in my intercooler pipes, at least more so than I remember when the car was new(er). My VCG is definitely in need of replacement, and I plan on getting to it along with belts and such fairly soon so that probably isn't helping.
I switched to a Millienia PCV years ago as per forum recommendation, but I don't know if it actually helped anything. I still see about the same amount of oil blow by around the PCV valve gasket and oil cap as before I swapped.
I wonder if there is a way to reduce the crankcase pressure so we don't get oil pushing out of our PCV seal, oil cap, and VCG.
Sharon Peters
Banned
I can answer this since I have been working with Signature for my valve cover to have this done to it. Cres, feel free to jump in if I am off base.
The valve cover was designed to handle the stock horsepower output levels of the 626, Protege, 323, MSP and so on. Even though they all have different power, they all have the same size passages in the valve cover baffle system. Turbo cars will produce more blow-by in nature due to many factors such as lower compression ratio, more pressure in combustion chamber, higher RPM average driving, less vacuum while accelerating and so on...
There are 2 passages for the crankcase to relieve its pressure; the PCV port (upper crankcase) and the side vent (lower crankcase). When the PCV is forced shut during acceleration, the pressure will relieve out the side vent fitting of the VC. Brian's catch cans/ PCV eliminator kit works the same way as stock, except the check valve is spring loaded instead of relying on gravity) The check valve is also located AFTER the crud is caught. This means the check valve will STAY reliable since it doesnt get gunked up like the PCV does. So no matter what PCV you use, like the Millenia S, it will still not be as reliable because the oil and sludge is still not allowing that little ball to properly seat and close off the passage. This puts the side vent into overtime trying to keep up with all that air flowing thru the tiny passages. Thats also why you will start seeing the oil in your intercooler pipes (probably rough idle too).
As pretty much all turbo owners already know, your octane rating is VERY important. The difference between 89 octane and 91 octane could mean the difference of detonation or not. Those few drops of oil are doing the same thing to your octane, bringing it down. And sometimes its more than others depending on engine temp and driving habits so your fuel is also inconsistent because of this as well.
So long story summarized, Brian is going to machine the internal passages to allow more flow. The balance from upper and lower case pressures are maintained thru the design of the catch cans. The PCV eliminator fitting he uses is not an off the shelf item, but can be done with the right products if you are DIY. He can walk you thru it if you ask him. I chose to have mine done since he was going to powder coat, and modify the s*** out of it anyway.
I will be talking with him thru the whole process. Let me know if you have any questions and I can ask him at the same time.
The valve cover was designed to handle the stock horsepower output levels of the 626, Protege, 323, MSP and so on. Even though they all have different power, they all have the same size passages in the valve cover baffle system. Turbo cars will produce more blow-by in nature due to many factors such as lower compression ratio, more pressure in combustion chamber, higher RPM average driving, less vacuum while accelerating and so on...
There are 2 passages for the crankcase to relieve its pressure; the PCV port (upper crankcase) and the side vent (lower crankcase). When the PCV is forced shut during acceleration, the pressure will relieve out the side vent fitting of the VC. Brian's catch cans/ PCV eliminator kit works the same way as stock, except the check valve is spring loaded instead of relying on gravity) The check valve is also located AFTER the crud is caught. This means the check valve will STAY reliable since it doesnt get gunked up like the PCV does. So no matter what PCV you use, like the Millenia S, it will still not be as reliable because the oil and sludge is still not allowing that little ball to properly seat and close off the passage. This puts the side vent into overtime trying to keep up with all that air flowing thru the tiny passages. Thats also why you will start seeing the oil in your intercooler pipes (probably rough idle too).
As pretty much all turbo owners already know, your octane rating is VERY important. The difference between 89 octane and 91 octane could mean the difference of detonation or not. Those few drops of oil are doing the same thing to your octane, bringing it down. And sometimes its more than others depending on engine temp and driving habits so your fuel is also inconsistent because of this as well.
So long story summarized, Brian is going to machine the internal passages to allow more flow. The balance from upper and lower case pressures are maintained thru the design of the catch cans. The PCV eliminator fitting he uses is not an off the shelf item, but can be done with the right products if you are DIY. He can walk you thru it if you ask him. I chose to have mine done since he was going to powder coat, and modify the s*** out of it anyway.
I will be talking with him thru the whole process. Let me know if you have any questions and I can ask him at the same time.
Sharon Peters
Banned
Here is a photo from his photobucket album. It shows the dual tank setup. The PCV tank has the fitting on top that goes to the intake mani for vacuum. The other tank has a billet head that unscrews so you can wash the filters. Very trick.
So Sharon, are you are planning on installing two catch cans then?
I bought a VC with the Mazda lettering about a year ago, and had it powder coated and spent a solid afternoon polishing the lettering. I've been delaying putting it on since I would want to do my belts and water pump at the same time so I don't end up buying a new VCG every time.
If it was something I could replicate without sending it in, that would be good, but my machine work skill is sorely lacking. I do like the idea of allowing more flow to reduce the pressure in the valve cover, mainly because I don't want my freshly PC'd and polished valve cover to be caked in oil as soon as I put it on. Any help in stabilizing the idle and reduction in oil burning is a bonus.
Posted the picture before I could reply, that answers my first question.
I bought a VC with the Mazda lettering about a year ago, and had it powder coated and spent a solid afternoon polishing the lettering. I've been delaying putting it on since I would want to do my belts and water pump at the same time so I don't end up buying a new VCG every time.
If it was something I could replicate without sending it in, that would be good, but my machine work skill is sorely lacking. I do like the idea of allowing more flow to reduce the pressure in the valve cover, mainly because I don't want my freshly PC'd and polished valve cover to be caked in oil as soon as I put it on. Any help in stabilizing the idle and reduction in oil burning is a bonus.
Posted the picture before I could reply, that answers my first question.
Sharon Peters
Banned
Yes I will be. Its designed as a system for turbo cars to have both tanks. MaxxMazda tried to get away with using just the PCV Eliminator and the mini filter on the breather port was covered in oil before too long. I have over 40 hours in porting and polishing my cylinder head, plus the valve cover is going to be sick... the last thing I want is for it all to get ruined because I skimped on the necessities. That bit me in the ass on the last build. The car will only be as good as its weakest link, might as well do it right.
CR3 Motorsports
Member
Bump!
I was looking to do option 2, but I already had my VC powder coated last year. Can you do option 2 without having to powder coat it again and is their a price difference. What would the turn around time be, this is my main car to get around in.
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- 2002 Protege5(sold) 2015 Mazda 6 Touring
How much for the adp?
Non chrome please.
Non chrome please.
FLIPOTTAWA
Member
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- Mazda Protege ES WDESC
How much and how long for PS catch can in Satin black
CR3 Motorsports
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PMed^
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- Michigan
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- GenPu VRM MS3
I am interested in this as I have been looking at getting a catch can, but am confused as to what I need/want. I plan to do an engine build, and run no more than 10 lbs on the daily.
I'm mostly looking for reliability from my build, power will come from something well built. But what does the MSP need to have a reliable PCV system?
I was originally going to just get a Millenia valve and route my own catch can. I tried reading through the thread but am not following too well.
I'm mostly looking for reliability from my build, power will come from something well built. But what does the MSP need to have a reliable PCV system?
I was originally going to just get a Millenia valve and route my own catch can. I tried reading through the thread but am not following too well.
TurboGixxer928
Member
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- 03 Mazdaspeed Protege
Got my catch can in the other day, looked great and he got it to me way quicker than I expected. I went the route to replace my PCV because I was burning oil like crazy. Seems to be working so far, I can tell its still burning a little oil, but i think its just residual from all the oil that it was losing before. As long as this works like its supposed to, i'll go back later on and weld in a fitting on the valve cover and replace the rubber lines, so dont pay too much attention to how those look, I just wanted to get it on and working.
CR3 Motorsports
Member
^ Looking good
Here is a new color we have, Black Lava PC With gold pearl and gold metallic.
Here is a new color we have, Black Lava PC With gold pearl and gold metallic.
CR3 Parts Rep
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Sorry this hasnt been answered.
The PCV system, no matter if you use a Millenia or stock, will always be prone to failure. The reason being is because the PCV is in the direct path of oil and blow-by. The sludge this creates will eventually cake up and keep the valve from properly seating. The result will be poor sealing of crank case vacuum under acceleration. This leads to a whole new set of problems are not easily diagnosed. One of the many is poor upper to lower crankcase pressure balance. When the lower crankcase is working to hard to vent, it causes the oil slinging around to get caught in high velocity air streams. Sending it up thru the vent tube and into the intake piping. This is when you see burning oil out the tail pipe.
Signature Catch Cans cure this problem by placing a check valve AFTER the crud is caught. So the reliability is way better. Plus the valve relies on a spring to close instead of gravity like PCV's do. For turbo applications it gets even better. The breather catch can is complimented by Signatures complimentary machining of the internal passages. The tiny holes that are behind the baffle plates are too small for anything "performance" wise. So Brian will open up the passages to an exact amount. This ensures the balance is retained, but the velocity is reduced. Windage and blow-by is greatly reduced and the motor is now ready for total breathability.
Reducing windage is huge since it takes weight off the rotating assembly. Plus it reduces cavitation by keeping the slung oil from air bubbles getting trapped. There is so much to all this it would make your head spin, but its amazing when you actually notice the difference. The system was created because the poor solution of throwing a heavier balled PCV just does not work long term. Anyone that has their head ported and polished knows the last thing they need is a bunch of gunk in there. And anyone with a turbo knows all that carbon build up is just detonation waiting to happen. So anything that can be done to purify the combustion is huge!
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- Michigan
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- GenPu VRM MS3
^^Thanks for that. I'll be in the market for one of these as soon as I can
CR3 Parts Rep
Member
^^Thanks for that. I'll be in the market for one of these as soon as I can
Sounds good buddy. If any other questions pop up, please feel free to get ahold of me. I love talking about this stuff and its great getting to know new people and their Protege's.
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